Random Rhetorical Hypebeast Fashion Thoughts

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby schiaparelli » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:01 pm

i wrote an edit to my last post but took too long and people replied, so here's more:

oieoou wrote:By what standard is "simple?" Is there a baseline? I dont think so because i believe all of fashion is subjective. "Toe-mayto, toe-mawto" ya know? I have a rough idea as to what basic is to you, what would then be "unique" or "showcase-y?" Im genuinely interested.


i'll just go forth with my personal standards for this:

there are certain details in garments which are really delightful and wonderful to me. with sweaters i really like having multiple kinds of stitches (rib, waffle, seed, &c). for me, something that would mean having a simple wardrobe without simple pieces: having a sweater which might be very conventional in certain details (e.g. cut, color) but contain really interesting textured knits and stitches.

something that's super showcase-y: a lot of outerwear. something to a particularly distinctive style, something that clearly defines an aesthetic the way a really unassuming pair of white sneakers or a normal white shirt or black jeans might not. i feel different people have different ideas of what is a good mix of idiosyncratic vs "versatile", more monotonous, adaptive items.

unwashed, i think you make an excellent point with adopting those kinds of calling cards/signifiers of taste. they're like these tiny things that people "in the know" will look for as subtle signs that you know what you're doing and have this interest in the minutiae, in the small bits of oddities, in details which elevate an item beyond being a normal ordinary high-street-few-months-too-late kinda thing.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby jrisk » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:50 pm

Really agree with what you're saying UnwashedMolasses. It's something I've thought about before. On a slight tangent, I think even simple stuff like cuffing your pants is definitely a stylistic signifier.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby teck » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:57 pm

schiaparelli wrote:i think one thing i'm very worried about is developing taste that is too expensive, to the point where i will be unsatisfied without devoting too many financial resources to fashion. that's the doomsday budgeting scenario for me, i guess.


i see this worry come up A LOT on forums, no doubt because the forum-ers are college types who are trying to figure out the trajectory of where their tastes will take them. "OMG if i'm into raf now as a poor junior at syracuse, what will happen to my wallet later in my late 20s??"

i'll say from experience i had this same thought as an undergrad. i'd go into diesel (hey fuck you diesel in 2002 was COOL) and drop a few hundo on clothes and get worried about where the limit to it was. i've gone thru a few cycles (really into nice stuff, then cheap stuff, then nice stuff) and i can say economics is a real, concrete thing and if you surpass it some dude on the phone who doesn't give a fuck about your exquisite taste will definitely ask how you're going to make that payment and ask for your employer's phone number.

ok im being a bit dramatic, but i think fashion tastes ebb and flow for everyone and its a process but its not a pure linear trajectory. otherwise by my age i should be dropping 10Gs on a pair of underpants.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby b4my » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:05 pm

Unwashed that's so true. I just posted about being about to buy the WTAPS vans and no matter how much I lie to myself about it, I know I probably wouldn't get them if they didn't have that label on the front because I like the thought of belonging to the club, of walking into maas and stacks rocking them and having the staff assume that I at least somewhat know what I'm talking about. I used to want attention with my clothing, then I decided I didn't want to attract any attention, but then I realized that I did want attention, but only from the right people.

I forget if it was someone here or some other forum (it's a pretty common viewpoint) but I remember someone talking about how people buy clothes to buy into a world way more than to buy the actual clothing itself. How the best designers create an entire world with their clothing and buying it is like a pass into it, and that's why young people look weird in yohji and people who aren't emaciated strung out 22 year olds look weird in st. laurent, it doesn't fit the world. Even people who are really into techy clothing are into the world imagined by techy clothing.

And I guess the reason hyped pieces are hyped is because they instantly communicate exactly what that world and that designer is about. Like you look at an Undercover knit rider and you instantly know what Undercover stands for, the whole sort of punk with that weird gypsy pirate wanderer edge.

But I think it's important to a lot of people to bring some degree of individuality to that, that's why you hear "dressed by the internet" thrown around as an insult so much, it's the idea that someone's not really about that world, they're just pretending to be, which is a funny thing because it's not your aesthetic, it's Rick Owens' or Jun Takahashi's or James Jebbia's or whoever's. But it's still irritating to see someone "dressed by the internet", it's strange.

I dunno I have a lot of unorganized thoughts on this subject. Feel like I'm telling you things you must already know.

teck, for me it's more the idea that I'll drop a lot of money on some clothes and not be interested in them later. I've been into fashion for about a year now and during that time my tastes have gone from streetwear to raf and st. laurent to gothy drapey shit to what I'm into currently (just streetwear again, but more japanese and more expensive) and I feel like I've finally arrived at what I'm comfortable in, but who knows if that will be true in 6 months? So why should I be dropping money on clothing right now if my tastes are just going to change? But it feels so right in the moment so I keep doing it anyway.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby odradek » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:06 pm

i hate the "how do you people afford this stuff" question. in fact, i hate any question that fulfills the "the answer is already there and you know it, you're just being snide or condescending or willfully ignorant or stirring the pot" criterion. it's the same as asking "how are you so good at skill x" except there's a financial element so it turns people into emotionally charged morlocks, western society having such an unpleasant relationship to the realities of class and the horatio alger myth.

i'm hardly suggesting that it's right or ok that i buy $300 shoes but i do live in a system that allows me to do that and i can't say i have a realistic opinion of someone who spends $4000 on a blazer. regardless of how well formed my opinion on the matter is, it's pretty easy to understand how someone affords something.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby teck » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:21 pm

yes i think we're getting to a fundamental truth about fashion:

Fundamental Truth About Fashion Theorem No. Whatever:

"One purchases clothing (and, largely) acts in such ways as to gain merit or prestige within a narrow sub sect of ones peers"


Fundamental Truth About Fashion Theorem No. Whatever, Corollary:

"The internet creates a place where many social groups meet, and the obviousness of the FTaFT is not immediately obvious to everyone involved".
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby UnwashedMolasses » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:25 pm

odradek, I love that distinction - people asking questions not because they're looking for an answer but because they're looking to argue or score points. That kind of backhanded shitslinging seems endemic of the internet, and it's one of the reasons I love this place so much.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby starfox64 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:22 am

there also comes a point where you become inured to the prices of things, i think. like when you're first getting into fashion and you're young and broke and a student and the idea of buying a pair of $700 boots or a $500 necklace or whatever is just so foreign to you. then you hang around long enough and you start to rationalize things in your head and suddenly a pair of $700 boots seems kind of reasonable, given all of the other factors and at least you're not buying a pair of $1200 boots or something, even if your financial situation isn't fundamentally different than it was 8 months before.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Capt » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:53 am

I feel the unease from "how do you pay for this?" is very similar to people asking you how much you paid for something in real life. In our narrow view point, the high costs are completely justified if not kinda reasonable, but to an outsider it's just absurd. The question kinda pushes us into another thought point for a second and maybe we do spend too much on a simple trifles. Suddenly we have to reason out why we paid so much for something so absurd.

The only difference is that the "how do you pay for this?" guy is in our club house, and we can deride him for just simply not being in the know.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby oieoou » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:22 am

UnwashedMolasses wrote:I think what teck is touching on is the difference between simple and unassuming. Something doesn't have to be modest or plain or understated to be simple. Long tee + black leather jeans + space boots is definitely simple, but also says you're trendy/edgy/different. Something like brown boots + blue jeans + white tee is also simple but says traditional/classic/sensible. One is more stylistically outgoing while the other is more reserved or just neutral.

This post made me understand what teck might mean a little better, thank you for that. But what would differentiate this idea of simple from "minimal?" Doesnt this idea of simple run along the same lines as having the bare essentials to make something interesting but at the same time be unassuming/forward (aka minimal)? Or could I be mixing up the two? Anyone feel free to comment/correct.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby bels » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:24 am

When I ask people how they afford stuff I'm trying to work out if I should get a different job.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby SisterRayVU » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:14 am

Just because your tastes become more expensive doesn't mean you'll always want the most expensive item or version of an item. There is a very real ceiling for a lot of pieces and then there is a stratosphere that's probably less about the piece than the price? Beyond that, you always probably feel the need to consume less when you consume better. A nice sweater with details you enjoy complemented with four shirts and a pair of pants from comparatively middle-of-the-road places feels a lot better than twelve of everything from that latter place. But that much is obvious. I think, to an extent, you satiate your desire with good purchases and you know it was a good purchase because you aren't thinking about what you should have bought instead.

And about the money shit, I hate that question. 'How much was that (x)' is the most aggravating question and I hate it when it comes from friends. But at least most seem to understand that people value different shit. Some dudes drop a ton of money on nice guitars. Some buy pants. And how can someone afford that? The people who ask these questions don't tend to be people with a ton of money saved up. 'Clearly, I manage my money better than you because I can buy what I want to buy.' At the very least, if I was in a precarious financial situation (and it's not like I have money, I just have no real financial responsibilities), I could sell my clothes and come out with a decent clip. What will those people asking that question do?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby midvh » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:34 am

Cool stuff from OL

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby pips » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:19 am

All this talk about the relationship of money with fashion makes me realize that it's ironic homeless people always get recognition as some sort of fashion flintstone.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby bels » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:50 am

Was talking w/ syek re this kind of stuff on IRC and I feel it's a bit lame that the response to "I can't afford this" is often "save up/go on rakuten" when sometimes it should really be "try to find a look that you like/suits you at a price point you're comfortable with paying"
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby teck » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:21 am

pips wrote:All this talk about the relationship of money with fashion makes me realize that it's ironic homeless people always get recognition as some sort of fashion flintstone.


its complicated. when people rep homeless people or workwear outfits or military uniforms we're not liking the CLOTHES, we're liking the UNIVERSE/flintstone/mythos. No one is running out and putting on the exact clothes the homeless dude is and living on the street. we're drawn to the aesthetic.

then, of course, how do you access this aesthetic? well, we live in a thoroughly capitalist world, so we naturally think to buy into it. in some ways its a sickness of our time, to think that we can just buy anything. its almost arrogant if you think about it.

its why we need things like no cops, to help us remember that we're drawn to the beauty/aesthetics of a thing, and not become embroiled in the pricetag thats artificially attached to it. it helps de-alienate us.

can you tell i studied sociology in school?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby whinefields » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:15 pm

schiaparelli wrote:today i started feeling like all of care-tags is a conspiracy to make me fall in love with marni. and then i realized it was just whinefields, what with his girlfriend's marni shoes and his own.


I just had the longest, most satisfying laugh in a while thanks to this. The thought that my feet would look nearly as good as my girlfriend's in Marni (and that those were actually my feet) or that I paint my toes brought such a smile to my face. So great to read that in the middle of all this serious talk.

But on to the more "serious stuff": I definitely think that as time passes one becomes less concerned with fitting into the right circle, or wearing stuff as a signifier (ie "look at me, I'm wearing Raf and others in the know will recognize it and then I'll feel cool). It's very common - within any niche group - to try to prove one's worth, that one should be included, in the very beginning. I don't think this is limited to fashion. There are always big names (and usually expensive things) that define an industry, or a subset within an industry, and one of the ways to show that one belongs is to be able to reference those names in some way be it by wearing them, eating at their restaurants, seeing their art, visiting those locations, etc.

However, I feel like that as time goes on, and one's interest in said subset grows, one finds that those very names/items/locations that first permitted entry actually become irrelevant, or at least loose some of their luster. It makes sense: the more one becomes knowledgeable, the more one finds one's own personal taste, which causes a move away from some of those larger, more prevalent names. For instance, some people might really be into the RO look. They start looking it up online and since he's sort of a figurehead for this certain type of look, they gravitate towards him. It becomes all about getting those pieces. But I believe that as times goes on, if that person is still into the look that Rick espouses, then they'll start to find more and more designers that do Rick, and maybe designers that they think do it better, and all of a sudden it becomes less about wearing Rick to wear Rick but more about wearing Rick once in awhile because that look fits with that person's style. I know that might sound convoluted, but I honestly believe that if one really cares about the look, the substance, then the brand falls away.

Another way to look at it is why do people lust after those LV bags: is it because they're actually incredibly nice bags? No. It's completely because they represent something. They mean "I'm in. I've got money. I can spend it on frivolous items." However, if you have money and are really into bags, you might have an LV bag but I doubt you'd wear it all the time. Because it's no longer about showing off your LV and more about having the best bag for any occasion. Which means maybe you have a Celine one night, or an Hermes, or whatever. Those bags don't have as much noticeable branding as LV does, but that's not the point anymore. So what if someone on the street doesn't know what bag you have? It's about an interior knowledge, a confidence, that you have something incredibly well made, something that's unique, something that compliments you.

I guess TL;DR, the more you get into something, the less others' opinions matter. Money is, and will aways remain, another much larger issue, but in terms of just wearing the cool/right/fashion-y stuff, I think the show off pieces/brand names fall by the wayside pretty quickly. That's not to say that people don't still wear those brand names, but the logic behind it is different. It becomes more about fitting it into your wardrobe and wearing it because it works and less about owning it just because of the tag.

I used to buy a ton of Bape (ben, you can attest). That's all I cared about in high school and that's because I was a miserable fuck who cared so much about fitting in and being popular and not looking like a chubby Jewish kid from New York and getting girls and everything else. But then I started dressing the way I liked, the way that made me feel comfortable and pretty soon all that Bape did fall by the wayside; I got into brands that mattered, looks that mattered (somehow, patent leather knockoff AF1s weren't part of that look...odd). But the funny thing is, one day I was looking for a sweater that looked like it had been worn awhile, it needed a certain kind of color, and I was walking past the Bape store in SoHo and there it was. And I bought it not because it was Bape but because it was exactly what I was looking for to fit into the rest of my wardrobe. And then I called ben and told him that high school me was freaking out because I was wearing Bape again.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby maj » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:29 pm

used to be strongly opposed to button fronts sweatshirts/jackets but i find myself liking them more and more recently.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby msc » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:12 pm

the carhartt clash parka is out of stock in my size for every color..my heart is broken
any ideas for an olive fishtail <$400 besides carhartt and ace hotel?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby RycePooding » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:44 pm

I have this pair of Red Wings that by all means I should love, but I don't. As I'm selling everything I don't love or don't wear, I keep coming back to these, making the eBay listing and then hesitating. They were my first 'expensive' shoes, so I guess some of it is sentimentality, that's making me think twice. They're really very pretty boots, but I almost never wear them. Some reason: they're too big, but work with an insole. they aren't that comfortable, but I keep telling myself it's the break-in period. They're hard to get on. One of the laces always comes untied and it's really annoying. Idk. Someone tell me to just sell the damn things.

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Bobbin.Threadbare » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:21 pm

I don't hate anything, but when people buy into fashion labels and other creatives collabing and they just come up with crappy graphic tees I just don't understand the appeal. I know it isn't 'for me', but it's such a missed oppurtunity and a wasted dollar.

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This is probably why I don't buy/get Supreme. Some of the stuff with cool prints looks great, and I get it. However when people are getting boners over a t-shirts with, frankly widely licensed images, I just don't 'get it'.

In the same breath, I understand that people wont understand the nuances of mono clothing, denim geekery or different leathers.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby oieoou » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:40 pm

You are all such intelligent, well-spoken people and I love reading/listening to what you guys have to say. I wish I had the ability to write and think such smart things.

that sounds kinds creepy but thats how I feel.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby b4my » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:15 pm

^ I agree.

Is it weird to call a physical store and ask about sizing on a specific item?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby germinal » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:20 pm

i don't think that's a particularly egregious example bobbin. nothing i'd wear of course but it's two of the most iconic (albeit played-out) designs of all time combined in a perhaps overly obvious way yet it's nothing that does disservice to either brand.

graphic tees are surely the most popular method of expressing yourself through clothing in the world, and the easiest to wear and afford; they're important cultural signifiers of our time. i don't think it's surprising people hold them in such regard. why people have bad taste in graphics tees is a much harder question.

i'd bet something like the history of t-shirt designs or supreme's oeuvre is built on a foundation as interesting and as storied as any vintage garment

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby oieoou » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:22 pm

b4my wrote:^ I agree.

Is it weird to call a physical store and ask about sizing on a specific item?

Weird? Naw. Inconvenient? Maybe. I say do it anyways or else youll never know.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Vaeltaja » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:33 am

I really want a massive stole right now. Why do I wanna dress so weirdly (you can also substitute the word "expensively" too)?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby sknss » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:10 am

get a tuareg stole, costs nothing
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby BobbyZamora » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am

For whatever reason, I'm finding myself drawn to zip-up hoodies lately. Especially layered underneath another piece of outerwear (Like a wool bomber or a denim jacket.)

Unfortunately I've always felt like there is some sort of aversion among many fashion communities, towards standard zip-up hoodies. I guess they're seen as "boring" or very "highschool"?

On that note, how do you guys feel about taking flintstone from things like anime? I've been catching up on One Piece and I never noticed before, but some of the outfits and character designs are really very cool to me (though probably tacky in the real world.)

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby trav » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:27 am

I always had the same aversion towards hoodies being kinda juvenile. These product photos from strato changed my mind. now I really want to find a thick gray hoodie with dual zipper

http://www.strato.co.jp/item/MAC-038/

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby RycePooding » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:22 am

Japanese product shots always make me want to buy shit
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