Random Rhetorical Hypebeast Fashion Thoughts

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby oucho » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:02 pm

Blastoise wrote:I don't think that's saying that fashion isn't art (the article). It's no less art than a painting or a sculpture. Sure, a fast majority of clothes (not necessarily "fashionable") are purely meant for functionality but so is the paint that goes on walls and buildings designed entirely to serve a purpose. It can be a way of expression just like anything else.

Speaking personally, do you think that your designs and prints are art before putting them on your clothes?

I think that's exactly what it's saying. I don't think most fashion is meant to be art, it's not necessarily about function but the objective of what you're creating. Also you have to take into account the hugely commercial nature of fashion and making collections twice a year. I don't think it degrades it all, I just think it's different. I also think that acting like fashion is art is a bit lame, there are probably designers who would argue that their work is art, but that's different from a consumer.

I don't consider them to be art, they are made specifically to be put onto clothes, which is a different thing from making art.

To be honest if you really wanted to be an artist fashion doesn't seem like a logical route to me because your work is probably going to be compromised by the nature of the fashion industry. That's why fashion designers embrace the idea of fashion as something different.

I don't actually know what I'm talking about tho rlly and I kinda made that up^

Also I'm not really defining art as just 'expressing yourself' because that can be going and having a dance in tha club, so that's a pointless discussion, but rather ~the ultimate form of expression~~~
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby rublev » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:30 pm

I know a few people who do textiles (print / weave / knit) and fashion at different schools and seeing what they do i'd have no problem putting it under the label of 'art'. Much of the print stuff i've seen could stand alone in a fine art degree but then they go one further and stick it on a transparent long skirt. I've seen intricate knits that have been hung like paintings, or sat like sculptures, but then also worn. Different art disciplines have huge influence on each other and any boundaries within 'art and design' are blurring / fading. It seems pretty close minded (no beef tho) to say that if you wanted to be an artist you wouldn't go down the route of fashion / textiles. If art is about expression and creativity and feelings and hard work and concepts and final products etc, then i see it sitting pretty comfortably.

It's a pretty redundant argument either way though.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby TheOttosauraus » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:27 pm

I'm having a hard time figuring out why it is that some people are hold beliefs contrary to fashion and clothing possessing the ability to be purely artistic.

Using the human body as a canvas enables many artists to transpire both more animalism and humanism in both conflicting and correlating ways, creating not necessarily more or better commentary than painting or sculpture, but entirely different commentary. To be able to use life as the basis for a piece of art is an opportunity that can be wasted if the potential is not realised.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby ramdomthought » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:30 am

@TheOttosauraus

regarding your first point:

I'm having a hard time figuring out why it is that some people are hold beliefs contrary to fashion and clothing possessing the ability to be purely artistic.


This seems like you want to start a discussion, but you start it in this instant combative manner that makes it impossible to talk.

I think the whole Fashion is Art conversation is a worthless one to have. We're living in an era where art is an extremely loose word (as it should be or not, it's a fucking word) and it's all a big who the fuck cares. If an artist wants to create something and can get the means to do it they're going to do it; whether some art history major wants to decide if what they do is called art or not doesn't even factor into it.

Using the human body as a canvas enables many artists to transpire both more animalism and humanism in both conflicting and correlating ways, creating not necessarily more or better commentary than painting or sculpture, but entirely different commentary. To be able to use life as the basis for a piece of art is an opportunity that can be wasted if the potential is not realised.


This reads like an ad-lib art history paper.

Fill the [WORD TYPE] in with your own word and have fun! Maybe even print this out and use it as a pocket square to show the world how useful your pockets are!

Code: Select all
Using the [NOUN] as a canvas enables many artists to transpire [ALBUM FEATURING FRANK ZAPPA] and [PHILOSOPHICAL THEORY] in both conflicting and correlating ways, creating not necessarily more or better commentary than [ART FORM] or [OBSCURE ART FORM], but entirely different commentary. To be able to use [NOUN] as the basis for a piece of art is an opportunity that can be wasted if the potential is not realized.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby ramdomthought » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:36 am

should i sell my toj 2010dr
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Blastoise » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:36 am

What size/measurements?
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Blastoise » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:43 am

In response to the rep: in that case, I wouldn't sell it because it's a great piece. But at the same time if you never wear it and you think it's holding you back and you're better off without it, yes.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby insted » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:07 am

I think the whole Fashion is Art conversation is a worthless one to have. We're living in an era where art is an extremely loose word (as it should be or not, it's a fucking word) and it's all a big who the fuck cares. If an artist wants to create something and can get the means to do it they're going to do it; whether some art history major wants to decide if what they do is called art or not doesn't even factor into it.


not sure why you seem so upset by all of this, in any case i think the notion that art history majors define what is and isn't art is pretty ridiculous statement.

sharing the sentiment that it's surprising any are arguing against clothing as art. i understand this discussion gets boringly arbitrary, but i think some closure can be had with the provision of a couple definitions -

Artist -

An artist is a person engaged in one or more of any of a broad spectrum of activities related to creating art, practicing the arts, and/or demonstrating an art.


Arts -

The arts represent an outlet of human expression, usually influenced by culture, and driven by human creative impulse.


honestly feel you'd be hard pressed to state that [insert coveted designer here] creates free of human expression, without influence of culture, and without creative impulse.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby hamburgerlady » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:08 am

thought about a lot of the posts here and decided to reflect on myself and why i purchase what i purchase:
it really is no surprise that i'm a big collector of lad musician. probably one of the bigger overseas collectors/wearers.
i've taken a liking to lad musician because i felt as though the overall looks and pieces being presented were so minimal, so well done, so clean.
i would always see some of my favorite musicians wearing it, and i always thought: wow, the designer really does fit this kind of aesthetic with the clothing.

i've written countless times about why i like Yuichi Kuroda/Lad Musician pieces, but i'd like to address a little bit about my personal background to shine a light on the "why".
for me, i've always been very musically inclined. drums for 10 years now, bass for 2 years, and starting up guitar again.
primarily: shoegaze and noise music/musicians have always been a constant interest in terms of music and style of dress.
i don't necessarily dress to "fit-in" in my personal view; more so i dress the way i do because it's comfortable for me and makes me happy.
i'm not seeking out validation in those "subcultures" for dressing this way. then again i also don't believe/like to be put into a "subculture" but that's another thing entirely.
and when it comes to how i enjoy dressing, i like dressing very "clean" in a sense that everything is out there to see, and has a clear visual aesthetic.
when it comes to purchasing the pieces that i do, it has come to a point where i look at it and take a little bit of time to think about how it resonates with what i personally like.
it ultimately has ended up being that i don't think twice about the quality now just because of the sheer amount i've handled/own.

in terms of selling clothing/an entire wardrobe aesthetic a la @maj:
i've sold almost (with the exception of 2 pieces) my ENTIRE Patrik Ervell wardrobe.
i had quite the collection, but not nearly as much as i do now with lad musician.
my main reasoning: with Patrik Ervell i loved the quality, but the fit just wasn't there for me personally.
also, my interest in lad musician/japanese clothing is rooted way before i started knowing of/purchasing patrik ervell.
i just had no idea how to get it at that point in time; and by the time i did it changed completely.
my main point of reasoning that really changed me: "with lad musician, i'm buying clothing i know i won't resell. because i'll be wearing the pieces i have so frequently that they won't really have any resell value at that point. they'll be worn in completely".
and i intend to keep it that way. granted, lad musician still isn't the only brand i wear/purchase.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby TheOttosauraus » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:24 am

@randomthought

I'm sorry that my post read as it did. Reading it now does make it seem like a load of crap.

All I'm trying to get across is that fashion can be and has been used as art because the human body is different than a canvas or a block of marble.

but whos being combative u fuck fite me
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby insted » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:48 pm

You're so much better than calling me upset, come on.


you're right - I apologize for that abrasiveness. I was stressed about school and thought your post was a little too much and overreacted.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby RycePooding » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:59 pm

Everybody compliment each other.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby kyung » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:11 pm

@rycepooding has made me want friendship bracelets to put on my ankles this summer. also he's a cool dude.

:sweg:
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby RomanEmpire » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:15 pm

I think it's interesting how some people like to think they have some things about fashion, such as trends and such. About a week or so back my history teacher (who's a guy) was talking about called out one of the girls and said she was committing a fashion faux pas by wearing a denim jacket. Another girl chirped in and said that they were coming back into style, and that they come back every couple years. I'm pretty sure denim jackets never left, I didn't say anything, but I think it's kind of interesting how some people think that they know about trends and try to keep up with them, when in reality they aren't really trends at all. Also at the same time if you're a guy and you're actually into fashion, a lot of people laugh at you or automatically assume you're gay.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby maj » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:55 pm

i think it's important to separate between micro and macro trends, ie parkas have never been out of fashion but this year they trended hard and if someone was to say "parkas are not in fashion" next year they wouldn't be wrong, on the micro scale. one of the reasons the general public and the high street chains interest me is how fast trends spread, one dude in sixth can get a jacket from topman, then another gets it, then more get it, then suddenly every ones got it and it's poor form to be seen without one then 4 months later they're forgotten.

i think the gay thing is very much situation based, round here nearly every guy my age of a certain demographic is "into fashion" it's seen as cool, albeit at the level of airmaxes and topman but none the less they partake in the sport and stuff at a level they like. when i mention i like clothes to them they see it as normal cool and respect the choices i make, i/they feel no need to differentiate what i buy and what i wear from what they do. i cant hold a conversation about raeburns latest work by any means but a can talk about what sorts of things are cool with them comfortably and all the "trendy" items as it's a universal point of reference, once you start a conversation and people feel comfortable even people you wouldn't expect start talking about their fashion likings which i find really interesting. you just have to create an environment where it is a free discussion rather than saying this is what you must wear or that's shit, but instead say "yo that's cool have you considered?...". that's not to say there aren't people against it but with select choice of words it's easy to defuse the situation or set them straight without too much hassle or hurt feelings by either party.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby RomanEmpire » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:10 pm

Good point on the micro and macro trends. It makes sense, but at the same time saying that about something such as denim jackets struck me as kind of weird because I've seen them around here for years.

I haven't had any personal experience being called gay, my friends kind of know that I'm interested, and they didn't really care. They'll ask me for advice and what not, and they don't look down on it or anything. However when I first started getting into it and my girlfriend found out she was ok with it at first, but once I mentioned expensive pieces she became more apprehensive and started making assumptions. Her sister's used to buy expensive clothes and has poor money management, so it caused problems for her and feared I would become the same way. She also said she was scared I would become too "flamboyant" which kind of upset me. I talked to her about it and I changed her view a bit, but it still surprised me that she believed that male into fashion = gay stereotype.

There's a lot of guys in my school that do make an effort to dress nicely (mainly prep) but some of them become pretty elitist about it. They're not into fashion, just dressing well, and I think that for that reason they aren't thought of as gay, and are more looked up to than anything.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby insted » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:35 pm

ugh i love these recent discussions
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby insted » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:46 pm

my girlfriend definitely bats an eye when i start to talk about buying stuff like designer basics, because i'm just a poor college student working two days a week and her family (as well as mine) are kind of struggling with money so to speak - but a lot of what i buy is just with paypal money from things that have sold, with the uncommon exception where opportunity cost prevails. but i know she doesn't mind too much because i buy her yohji sometimes lmao

the price that i've somewhat normalized for things like t shirts, jeans, etc. is much higher than what she is comfortable with - she never holds it against me or thinks i'm making bad decisions though. every so often she'll say something to keep me in check, or remind me that i could be saving more money instead of buying clothes, which i always respect and mind because she's usually right - but we always have money to go out, i can pay for dinners, etc. and i'm really in a very comfortable pace as far as my spending habits go. i'm much more deliberate with purchases now as well which helps.

she definitely shows interest in fashion, and i've caught her lately browsing margiela or jil sander or issey miyake, but she's sooo careful with her spending that when she buys something it has to be the perfect piece. i'm a little looser than that, and might buy something that i'll get fully comfortable with a month or so later, or just turn it around again.

i have enough money to pay for things like my oil changes, school books, my gas, otherwise i don't know i'd have a lot more jawnz but be a piece of shit.

i fucking love the self sustaining aspect of jawnz too though, because a one time investment has led to months of clothing circulation, without rendering me broke. it's helped me manage other aspects of my life in a sense because i see investment opportunity now, and likeliness of longevity in something.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby TheOttosauraus » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:08 pm

@smiles I don't want to be a sucker if you're being facetious, but I don't want to just ignore the question if you're legitimately asking. A last is the basis on which a shoe is built, therefore a different shaped last will give a differently shaped shoe. This http://leffot.com/shop/index.php/shoes/ ... k-oak.html (Is there a way to abbreviate links?) is built on the EG 82 last, (Edward Green in this case, if anyone was wondering if and why Engineered Garmnets had started making dress shoes) whilst this: http://leffot.com/shop/index.php/shoes/ ... d-g-g.html is on the G&G MH71, and this: http://www.leatherfoot.com/store/cooper ... ast/dp/140 is on the Deco.

I like the 82 most of all because it creates a more dashing, streamlined shoe without going for a chiseled toe, making it a little more understated. The MH71 is up there because everyone needs a classic round toe dress shoe, and I think G&G does it perfectly, with it being not too bulbous in the toe box yet still voluminous, and slight taper at the waist evens it out perfectly. The Deco is the way to do a chiseled toe, tapering at waist and toe but widening quite a bit in between, making sure that it doesn't just shoot straight into the chisel, which is what I dislike about most Corthays. The Deco wholecuts are absolute perfection IMO for formalwear, as a guy who doesn't really go in for patent leather.

http://leffot.com/shop/index.php/shoes/ ... hukka.html Corthay for reference.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby Vaeltaja » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:54 pm

I'm nearly exactly 32" where I tend to wear my pants, which means that if I lose about half an in inch there I can wear size 46 nearly perfectly again :D On the other hand, my hip bones are like 33/33.5" where I sometimes sling my size 48 pants.

Ah, the struggle. It's warm enough to start working out again, which I'm happy about.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby absurdmind » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:16 am

i feel like theres a trend amongst many people to go from what they consider a rugged look in the winter (work boots, flannels, raw denim, etc.) to a prep look in the summer. i think im inclined to do just the opposite. like in the winter i want raf simons and top coats or parkas with button downs and derbies and stuff like that and in the summer i want to look like im going to go camping or to the beach or something with weird polyester shorts or linen pants and oversized tees and hoodies.

i really like ll beans summer stuff all of a sudden. im buying these shorts that im pretty excited about http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/36415?fe ... ndle&dds=y but ill probably get 8 inch inseam. if any of my friends refer to espadrilles as "toms" ill kill them
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby yourdad » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:18 am

i like to look stupid year round
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby can- » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:59 am

pretty sure this dude I saw is wearing head to toe Adam Kimmel

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby rjbman » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:06 pm

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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby teck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:16 pm

goddamn it i came here hoping not to talk about normcore.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby ramseames » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:27 pm

wish everyone would just read the k hole article about it and shut up about how it pertains to clothes.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby can- » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:31 pm

the youth mode PDF is really wonderful and spot on, and I think normcore is an appropriate response to the culture I (and probably many others here) grew up in which encouraged a personal curation of opinions (or clothes) over proper human connection and spontaneity. even in 6th grade I remember so much social currency being wrapped up in what you were into, if you preferred joy division to my bloody valentine, etc-- and normcore is a really great way out of that one man echo chamber.

it's frustrating that all editorials seem to mistake the concepts of acting basic and normcore, because normcore has nothing to do with light wash jeans or patagonia. I would actually love to talk about normcore because it has so much to do with how we consume and wear clothes (and the million other ways millennials mutually pressure each other into really ugly navel gazing self-styling).
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby teck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:42 pm

i just finally read the damn report and i agree theres actually some smart thinking there. there's a realization that trends and the idea of being individual is actually a staple of mass consumerism, and that a resistance to that trend, or resistance to trends rather, might be a way out of it.

actually this is an old ass idea (where you at Weber?) and the real weakness of the pdf is that theres no academic or theoretical framework. it just presents normcore as a reaction to the "indie" movement, which i think means that eventually there will be a reaction to normcore that swings back towards indie. also, it doesn't address the fact that corporations/brands/people (and really ALL OF CAPITALISM) can absorb countercultural concepts (sorry hippies) and force them into the money making machine.

also, i think the report was supposed to be a quasi-satirical art piece? so its not really supposed to be taken at face value? could be wrong about that tho.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby iamacyborg » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:41 pm

Nubuck jacket update - two weeks later and the jacket is made, just the lining left to go. Popped over to the shop after work to try on, it'll be ready to collect on Monday. ToJ is making less and less sense.

Luxire order has finally been shipped as well, will see how well they've managed to rip off Lanvin's biker pants and whether it's worth ordering anything else.
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Re: ramdom fashion thoughts

Postby maj » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:16 pm

was at work today and thought i saw some 30 year old lady in wtaps logo hoody down an aisle, but when she turned round...

Spoiler:
turned out i was mistaken

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the dude in the palace parrot bucket made up for it though.
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