Random Rhetorical Hypebeast Fashion Thoughts

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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby kremvax » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:12 am

i don't like virgil/off white and i probably dislike his stans even more and this appointment is making me kind of annoyed because a lot of well meaning people i know already assume that since im black and like fashion i have to like *him* for some reason

i think it's like a pretty important representation thing though in terms of... literally just his appointment, look at the models in an off-white show i mean/look at off-white. though i know this is huge/"risky"? enough for an iconic french fashion house) .a bunch of people were tweeting stuff like "the black community has to put our coins together to support lv cause they just got a black designer!" and shit made me kinda frowny-faced because itd be nice to get behind black designers actually designing (and owning their brands) if you're gonna do that, and better question why we don't hear about them/why they might not have the same access/who exactly this appointment actually will open up doors for in the future. i was going to type something about how frustrated i get when people want to talk about Black Designers but only/mostly mean like, this specific straight dude cohort that is like. virgil/jerry l/heron p. etc. but it doesn't feel thaaat much related/it feels like a keyword is "assimilation", and like i said, i guess it's silly to imagine like, a recho omondi or telfar clemens or kerby jean raymond LV right now/instead. which i don't like saying because i like them and i don't really believe it (also i don't think that any of them - rightfully - are designing with the kind of intent that leads to a louis vuitton post - going back to that keyword)

but he has to make them money is all, right? (i guess i basically agree with that sz piece even though it's written really annoyingly) i'm not super familiar with lv but i guess i always figured they mostly move bags and accessories and stuff/i don't know who is buying the menswear.

funny things are his multiple "design is a scam" tweets, all things that i definitely believe that he believes but after this news was announced a bunch of people retweeted them and he deleted all of them
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Julio » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:51 am



*shrug emoji*

all necessary points regarding the significance of this move, + representation, et cetera, have already been said by other people in this thread in other ways. all important and sensible points which i agree with, but it doesn't change that i'm not into abloh's output. but then i've never cared about LV either. so regardless of my like or dislike it doesn't really affect me in any meaningful way.

i've been trying to learn how to leave it at that
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby oucho » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:35 am

I know that part of the answer is because it's insanely expensive but why isn't lanvin more hype? The mix of classical tailoring, sportswear and 'haha isn't what old straight white men wear eccentric' seems on trend to me. Lanvin is the brand that 'guy who is really into wearing prada but needs to find a slightly alternative take on that' would wear in order to get street styled. They even make hype trainers



at times it seems hyper influenced by prada but I really like the styling and I guess a lot of it looks aggressively and obnoxiously luxe but isn't that basically true of all high fashion?
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:02 am

oucho wrote:why isn't lanvin more hype?

i was gonna say it's because americans can't pronounce "lanvin" easily until i realized how stupid that reasoning was, but it's funnier than any real reason i could come up with so i'm sticking with that
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Julio » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:46 pm

oucho wrote:why isn't lanvin more hype?


imho it's comparatively too quiet. i like a lot of their output but it kind of boils down to the lack of visible logos, that no one really wears it loudly, and that even all their recent hype weird sneakers are very particularly 'euro' in vibe?
the only people i know who really get into it are people who really like the history, or at least the idea of its history (1889 is no joke), and thus usually have stronger feelings for the tailoring work; suiting, etc.

sort of leaves all the more "modern" athletic elements out of the picture if someone wanted to approach them that way.

and if you wanted to dip into their sportier output it goes back to the weird sneakers (runners in particular): those didn't really come up until shortly after the rafasics/adirafs advent. prior to that it was extremely quiet court shoe looks sitting alongside the stranger offerings like the bmx and side zips, etc.
it'd have to be a really deliberate choice to opt for lanvin output over the more recognizable or hype equivalents.

so i guess it goes back to lanvin being quietly expensive. it's more stealth rich than whatever hype luxury brands are running around throwing the weights of their logos around. *shrug*

sorry i got rambly
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby stoogesjacket » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:07 am

I’m really fascinated by all of the “archival” instagrams that have recently seemed to pop up, all with the same old Raf/Rick/Helmut/Undercover/AnnD/Margiela/now Kapital for some reason pieces that were all culled from y!JP, all in the same format of garment photographed flat on white background. Makes me wonder both if these pieces are actually being *worn* by anyone anymore and who/what exactly is making all these people have the exact same taste
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby b4my » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:20 pm

the grailed prices are coming from inside the house
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby smiles » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:53 pm

*scene of teens feverishly posting #grailed pics of archival raf to IG in a sweaty cellar in Long Island *

The wolf of hypebeast
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby fun_yunchables » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:21 pm

Since i seem to spend too much time reading niche memes and stuff i see some definitely relevant ones
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(bless u fakeyeezyboosts)
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Spoiler:
also @ all the LA archival kids smh
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby rjbman » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:56 pm

one of my coworkers at work is into boots and talks about mr porter, superdenim, and grailed... weird to see how far-reaching fashun facets are
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby kremvax » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:54 am

the interests of like a ton of the "fashion guys" i meet are
raf simons (the angsty/moody looking outwardly cool stuff) - sterling ruby - hedi - helmut lang [bondage straps and bulletproof vests] - margiela when they're told - basquiat - warhol - and yeah, all that ~archive~ stuff.. - raving about things shortly after an asap rocky or luka sabbat cosign/mention - off-white/abloh, things for the culture etc. i don't know their exact points of entry but i'm like, it can't only be rappers right? / it feels weird because after that "entry" so many of them seem to develop their tastes in the exact same places/through the same channels or something (& don't really seem able to evaluate stuff other than what aligns w all that)

it can be worse when they actually speak though idk i've tried to follow various "collectors" and stuff and ones that often post things in the same format/talk about those brands on various social platforms but get exhausted/find myself unfollowing really quick bc of weird condescension and/or annoying sexism/horny posting/creepiness/???? when it came to womens stuff/how women dress

Image
:(
@popcorn yeah you are probably right about /fa/ slash mfa(?) which sucks bc i like really don't want that to be the case lmao. & it feels like the ways a lot of fashion guyz i know/have known from effay (specifically) talk about fashion can be incredibly uh... i dont know i havent been on there in ages but i think that board is one of the most anxious places on the internet & it shows

that that male-fashion-forums taste has persisted/i still see it even tho its been like half a decade might also be a thing that factors into the obsession with "archive" stuff like i'm not very sure if a lot of these guys are paying attention to other fashion media/anyone else/anything new/that isn't like forcibly dragged in by some random anon that almost immediately gets accused of trying 2 shill something/force a Jarvis

i also just realized kanyetothe's "fashion" section really resembles what i was describing and is still pretty active/it always seemed like a lot of its users got a good amt of their news/exposure to this stuff from highsnob/hypebeast etc and idk i guess its just an addition 2 the general "mens fashion forum" thing
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby b4my » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 am

it's just flexing level 2 isn't it...like the same people probably think it's lame to be into box logos but their mentality toward archive raf and whatnot is the exact same so you're going to see all the same weird pathologies and anxieties you see w/ hypebeasts.

also i think the collector's impulse as some sort of pathway around having to say you're "into fashion" as an aesthetic experience which is seen as like...less masculine somehow. vs the value of collections and knowledge gatekeeping and stuff. "i'm into fashion" vs "i'm into vintage nike", "i'm into archive raf", etc, the latter is definitely seen as less frivolous, or still frivolous but in a more acceptable way. i've definitely found myself doing that around new people. i used to DJ a lot and the mentality around rare disco and soul and stuff was the exact same.

to its credit i think that mfa (and c-t obvs) has actually been really good about shunning that mentality as a community and the tone there is a lot more welcoming and friendly and less creepily self loathing than fa or ktt.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby stoogesjacket » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:17 am

I mean, you definitely can't discount the influence of rappers (something something Kanye West's dreams of working alongside Helmut, Rick, and Margiela) but we also like, don't suddenly have Rihanna in Raf Simons fw02 or Kendrick Lamar in Craig Green from nothing. All of these sources (4chan, reddit, archival igs/twitters, guys in general who say they're into archival fashion) are all interested in these same designers' work from 1995-2005 that while all pretty excellent are not in a vacuum. Nobody really ever talks about much stuff before or after this period; you don't get guys trying to buy vintage Armani or Balmain under Christophe Decarnin even if those were the popular "menswear" of the day (cycles of cool perhaps?). If you talk to your average male teenager/young person, I doubt they'd suddenly start talking about avant garde menswear as they would Supreme or whatever. I'm curious in the source that lead to influencing these rappers (and now their fans, and I guess fashion in general) that wasn't present even five years ago.

I think a lot about ( http://lacollectionneuse.tumblr.com/pos ... -simons-99 ) this post from La Collectioneuse, a tumblr run by a set of related people (most notably names like humalien, ohyescoolgreat, and cotonblanc (r.i.p.)) who all started posting about this sort of fashion early in this decade (although cotonblanc is gone, you can see him posting helmut lang magazine scans in the thread on stylezeitgeist, for example). La Collectioneuse collects the listings and corresponding images of garments from the designers these archive guys are interested in, with images and links dating back to 2010. The linked post is for a listing for a Nebraska sweatshirt from Raf Simons' fw02 collection Virginia Creeper, sold in 2011, which various colorways sell for on Grailed for usually $3,000 nowadays, when Rihanna or SZA aren't wearing them. The thing is that clicking the link to that ebay listing show the sweatshirt selling for just £125, or $180 today (if only I was hip enough to be trawling ebay for Raf when I was 14).

I'm interested in the switch that happened to make this kind of change in demand and thus price. I guess 2011 was the height of the #menswear craze, so I guess nobody was really interested in distressed sweatshirts as they were like, oxford shirts or whatever. I think Grailed had more handle in it than its given credit for; I remember when their first curated sale came out for fw16 (lol) it gave me an idea of what were "grails" that I should aim for and thus what designers to pay attention to in general. I didn't know about Helmut Lang pillow neck bondage jackets or Raf Simons New Order Parkas or especially Carol Christian Poell Drip Sneakers before that (though I did only "get into fashion" as a senior in high school in 2015).

I bring this up to say that the hype around these archival pieces is a really new phenomenon. While I've seen some fans nowadays try to instantly determine what pieces in new collections will be "future grails," I don't think you can make such fast judgements on what will or won't become popular (and why I hope the Raf hype won't be sustained and cause prices to crash, lol). While Grailed kind of codified it (the most glaring example being the craze for IS Tsumori Chisato Bomber Jackets-- Tsumori Chisato's design for the Issey Sport line was specifically designed for teenage girls in the 80's, and now people like Ian Connor wear them), I think it was really fashion nerds on tumblr and forums (like us!) that eventually dictated all of this interest in the "archival" (rebranded from secondhand) market, along with timing of trend cycles, a sluggish design industry this decade, and new austerity post-recession. Granted, I have no knowledge of how these brands were received or bought pre-2010, which would be interesting to know, though I have heard that Helmut Lang's final collections were not well received from a retail standpoint, causing bondage bombers to be on clearance racks for years, which is why there are so many on the secondhand market in mysteriously new condition.

Does that make sense? I know this was long and it's just my observations but I definitely think young men desiring the (mostly quite gay, definitely difficult-though-well-designed) fashions of two decades ago goes deeper than rappers wearing it. I mean, the rappers had to get it from somewhere.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby candy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

i think what's really interesting to me is also the progression of the ideas of buying (sometimes niche) designer clothes spreading out towards the "general" people outside of fashion forums and etc.
i joined SuFu around my senior year of high-school; and around that time i started buying japanese fashion magazines at my local kinokuniya.
back then i think the knowledge of designers and "grails" were way less abundant, as well as proxying items from Japan to the U.S; it just didn't reach a lot of people yet at that time.
flash forward to now, where even my friends who i'd never thought get into fashion start wearing techwear and are actually so engaged with japanese/non-japanese streestyle trends.

i think once i saw frank ocean wearing a lad musician "shoegazer" shirt i knew it was real l o l.

i've also been noticing the trend of N(N), Undercover, or in other words Urahara movement names lately amongst the late-teens or early 20's group that "know all about fashion" (in which I think the credit for this is due to those whoisjacov + fernando youtube channels). in which case i almost get a bad taste in my mouth mainly because they act high-and-mighty knowing about these "foreign japanese designers".

also there's the almost nostalgia or extinction of what was once known as past grails or what the most sought after clothes were. (geller dip-dye, raf astros/velcro, visvim fbt's, undercover parka, etc..)

idk this is just a little spew of what i've been thinking of, especially after reading above. i think right now i'm at the spot in my life where i've pretty much found what i want to wear and don't have an outward need to talk about it too much anymore, which is why i don't really post anywhere and just lurk.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Lorcan » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 pm

There's also David Casavant who bought up masses (over 1000 pieces) of og Raf and Helmut back when it was reasonably affordable (late 00s, early 10s?) and then basically made a business of renting out rare pieces to famous people (Kanye, Kim, Pharrell) and for music videos, editorials, etc.

So like Travis Scott wearing old Raf in a music video - its actually David Cassavant's old Raf. And no doubt the hype has in turn made his collection more valuable...can't knock the hustle.

http://david-casavant.com/archive-category/video/
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Julio » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:34 am

lovely run of discussion right now, but i find myself too tired atm to really try to voice much out, moreso when the discussion surrounds brands that i don't religiously follow.

instead i'm going to be shallow and segue into this:
apparently people are trying to figure out if a$ap rocky is wearing d3s or not

since the advent of such things like adiraf hype and later forms such as the triple s (i don't think the speed trainer is nearly weird enough) i've been feeling like old/weird sneaker type things are kind of dying, and frankly d3s on asap's feet could really just be the nail in the coffin for me. moreso if he's wearing d3 referential sneakers he made with under armor. purely speculative, but yknow.

i... had more to say
such as trying to unpack my being an anti-hype sort of elitist and also trying to assert what it is about old/weird sneakers i liked so much
and no, i don't think it was purely just to be different

i think part of it was just challenging myself to make something seemingly janky work
but i guess the moment it becomes the aesthetic expression of a hype machine it gets watered down and disconnected

they were never supposed to be ~*fashion*~, i guess is what i'm trying to say. just things that coincidentally could be, sometimes. i guess that's my thing.

yes this is scatterbrained i will revisit it tomorrow after i get some sleep my apologies
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby b4my » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:32 pm

Julio wrote:i... had more to say
such as trying to unpack my being an anti-hype sort of elitist and also trying to assert what it is about old/weird sneakers i liked so much
and no, i don't think it was purely just to be different

i think part of it was just challenging myself to make something seemingly janky work
but i guess the moment it becomes the aesthetic expression of a hype machine it gets watered down and disconnected


i've been wearing a lot of purely functional sneakers as fashion recently - MBTs, hokas, salomons etc and i find it way more satisfying (and affordable lol). i think the thing about makes designer dad sneaks smell funny is the wiggly line from function to form. like it's very cool to make something for function that arrives at a form that wouldn't have been arrived at through purely formal design, and it's cool to make something purely aesthetically pleasing with minimal function but to pursue an aesthetic that looks like it doesn't consider aesthetic but actually does (like a triple s or acne footscapes) rings really false to me. that's why all designer sneaks bother me really.

that said the first thing i've had the opposite approach with is the yeezy 500, which i love and i think part of why i love it is that i can see myself wearing it w/ like dulcamara or evan kinori or something and totally divorcing it from its hype aura but ofc the hype aura is an unavoidable cultural miasma so wearing it that way would create this really wild cloud of contradiction on your feet.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby turkeyschmitt » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:37 pm

stoogesjacket wrote:I think Grailed had more handle in it than its given credit for


+100, its fun to hate on Grailed, but the barrier to entry into this cyber jawnosphere was much higher before they came along, and especially so before they had an editorial component. Sufu and fa weren't (and still aren't) exactly beginner friendly. Last year it was wild to think that we saw BoF write an article about buying clothes on YJP.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Lorcan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Lol yeah I guess if you're buying tons of Raf as a random teen its inevitably daddy's $$$

What I was stumbling inarticulately towards was it could seem like Casavant was driving hype for his own stuff in a relatively opaque way lending pieces out to specific people, which I thought was interesting. Ur casual observer who doesn't follow his insta might not realize who owns what.

As a long time Needles fan it was kind of strange seeing the track pant explosion, luckily that hype seems to have passed now
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:03 pm

let me just note that the idea of a horde of blindly hype-driven, pretentious fashion teens is a rhetorical concept that pretty much only exists in concept within fashion forum discussions. i've come into contact with a number of guys that could fit into that description and they've all been pretty well-meaning people with a genuine interest in fashion, and they have their own reasons as to why those particular brands speak to them. i have a friend that's into current lang and midnight studios and it's like whatever, it's not my thing but who am i to tell him it shouldn't be his either

the issue with fashion forums and instagram is that it collapses the entirety of someone's personality and interests into a list of brands for other people to judge independent of that person's actual personality or personal connection to fashion as a broader concept. /fa/ and ktt suck but that's more due to their userbases' external insecurities more than anything else, and obviously most grailed scalpers suck but there's clearly a market demand for what they're selling if they're sucking all the way to the bank to the degree that they are

people can be pretty annoying/OD about certain things in fashion but the "ugh hypebeasts ruined x brand" sentiment is also emblematic of shitty elitist gatekeeping. nobody came out of the womb with a fromjapan account and personal taste is constantly shifting with time

edit: he's into current lang, i still have a soft spot for the archive stuff (not enough to justify the prices though)
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby blanket » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:14 am

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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby Julio » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:25 am

CheerUpBrokeBoy wrote:let me just note that the idea of a horde of blindly hype-driven, pretentious fashion teens is a rhetorical concept that pretty much only exists in concept within fashion forum discussions.


alas, here's where i beg to differ. with living where i do, you meet some people who literally judge the value (economic, "intrinsic", aesthetic, etc) of an object based solely on what it broadcasts, and only like to buy items that are easily identifiable, broadcast wealth and economic superiority, and display that they are up to speed on trends.
i personally know someone who was all about supras with cheap monday skinny jeans etc on top of hellz bellz and other such loud graphic streetwear tees when bieber was the boy who put supra on the map, and since then this person has moved on to trying to buy "grail" raf & rick pieces to wear alongside more balenciaga pieces & needles trackpants "because they're the only needles piece that really count".
in other words, there is indeed a horde of hype-driven fashion teens and it exists in certain places, such as manila.
the amount of times i've heard someone say "i can't fux with [x], kanye's never worn [x]" or has walked into a store asking for the "thing kanye wore" honestly has me pretty tired.

but yes, i understand. being an elitist gatekeeper is a shitty thing, but there will unfortunately be people who can't stand to see something go from a place of clear intent to suddenly being the next flavor of the season because someone wore it. in the long run it shouldn't affect the lifespan or meaningful nature of a piece, but oversaturation can be tiring: it'll always fall to not wanting to associate with the kinds of people i talk about in the first paragraph here. this kind of cognitive dissonance always leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though.

on the whole i always double back to thinking about how you'll have to divide and parse up subcultures, and how everything is occurring in response to something else: there will be reactionary types, and there will be types trying to chase what is most likely to get widely recognized as a "fashion" thing or statement.

i'm not trying to absolve myself of my elitist leanings, only trying to say that my experience with hypebeasting kids outweighs my experiences with people legitimately wanting to get into fashion. it's a case-to-case basis. i know people have to start somewhere, and that it's a fluid process from then on
but if all i've ever seen from someone is moving from hype to hype, i can't exactly expect much else from them; moreso if it's been a decade of moving from hyped brand to hyped brand.

just my two cents
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby fun_yunchables » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:16 pm

CheerUpBrokeBoy wrote:


i disagree with your point about the hype-driven fashion teens being a rhetorical concept and not a physical manifestation. i would venture to argue that these people (not just teens!) do not immediately develop "good taste" (arguable whether it even exists or not, but this is a different point to discuss). in the age of needing immediate gratification, hype is the easiest and quickest way to acceptance by the majority of their peers (i mean, how many instagram likes do u think ur gonna get with #supreme #balenciaga #offwhite vs #esotericlabelsnooneseverheardof).

but that aside i'd just like to point out to me, the following logic:
i've come into contact with a number of guys that could fit into that description and they've all been pretty well-meaning people with a genuine interest in fashion

sounds awfully a lot like this:
i have (insert minority) friends and they've (insert racist comment)

it's obviously not as bad as racism but i see a parallel in the conclusion being drawn.

in any case i think you're right about being elitist but i'd argue that basically all capitalist institutions are elitist
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby fun_yunchables » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 pm

@oucho i did state it was obviously not as bad/serious and i feel like there's a misunderstanding here but idc you can interpret the response however you want
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby b4my » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:27 pm

screaming at the fact that this number nine jacket that goes for $850 on grailed looks exactly the same as this space jam jersey with taz dribbling a basketball.

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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby INNIT » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:49 pm

where do we all stand on rolling up pants. is rolling up pants dying? are we moving towards "respecting the pool"
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby popcorn » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:54 pm

relevant quotes in spoiler
Spoiler:
fun_yunchables wrote:
CheerUpBrokeBoy wrote:


i disagree with your point about the hype-driven fashion teens being a rhetorical concept and not a physical manifestation.
...

but that aside i'd just like to point out to me, the following logic:
i've come into contact with a number of guys that could fit into that description and they've all been pretty well-meaning people with a genuine interest in fashion

sounds awfully a lot like this:
i have (insert minority) friends and they've (insert racist comment)

it's obviously not as bad as racism but i see a parallel in the conclusion being drawn.


The interesting thing about the internet is that internet fashion now means constantly interacting with the rhetorical hypebeast. And because fashion garments don't sell for (assuredly there would be a good econ term for this that non-engineers will know) the value of their material x1.3, we have economic interactions with the rhetorical hypebeast.

They exist in every price tag.

We're talking about this rhetorical hypebeast because it's such an easy representation of the way the fashion market produces its effects, the rhetorical hypebeast 13 year old reseller (undercut, nike tracksuit, 5'2") is the reason the off-white prestos still cost $1000+ or whatever. When you see comments on hypebeast and youtube (as opposed to care-tags or ktt where there's a more developed profile) it's so easy to interpret every comment as being left by this generic person.

Ultimately it's not trivial to find the rhetorical hypebeast in real life because just like @CheerUpBrokeBoy mentions it's so easy to re-humanize someone you interact with in person. There are assuredly some ~fashion victim~ types who are having self-destructive, unhealthy relationships with the power game of fashion, and those people might come close to realizing the conception. This website's anti-consumerist discussions are in no small part a reaction to the way the internet breeds unhealthy habits because the internet shows us so many people assuming this identity.

Finally: although the rhetorical hypebeast is not an object, I think it's easy to see why we want to discuss the rhetorical hypebeast.
(1) In empathy, it's upsetting that human beings can be abused by fashion structures ('hype,' marketing, insecure communities).
(2) In egotism, it's upsetting that we don't have enough power to purchase all of the status symbols we want. The rhetorical hypebeast is our scapegoat.
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:09 am

my main point was really that the concept of the rhetorical hypebeast has been almost completely divorced from the actual people driving the hype. in forums like c-t hypebeasts are sort of referred to as this amorphous hivemind of marketing-hypnotized zombies – especially wrt "oh no, kanye wore [x designer], expect their stuff to sell out/grailed prices to surge"

the only real interaction that non-hypebeasts have with hypebeasts is pretty much through instagram, grailed, or if you choose to go to ktt for whatever reason, and i really think that it serves to collapse every single person feeding the hype machine into the same definition. i'm discounting resellers from this, because they're only interested in consuming fashion for the most mercenary reason possible, but i bet if you asked 1000 "hypebeasts" why they like the brands/clothes/styles they like you'd get 1000 different answers. it all ends up contributing to the same hype machine, but they're all individual actors with their own personal reasons for participating, and that's lost when people that like margaret howell and cdg whine about them on forums

i just feel like if you're interested in clothing in any intellectual way, as anyone on a fashion forum presumably is, your first instinct on encountering hypebeasts should be curiousity rather than revulsion or annoyance. the fact that a sneaker is manufactured for like ~$45, retails for ~$200 but can resell for ~$1000+ on the aftermarket should FASCINATE anyone with an interest in fashion. there's so much space to ask WHY hypebeasts like what they do, and investigate that on the basis of identity, branding/brand marketing, cultural capital, commodity fetishism, whatever – but having a kneejerk negative reaction against them is so intellectually incurious that i really can only see it as basic elitism

case in point – there are plenty of care-taggers that wear some of the brands that the stereotypical hypebeast might like (myself included): how do you differentiate your reasons for wearing raf/UC/rick/supreme/etc. from this imagined hypebeast, or are you complicit in fueling the hype machine? as someone that likes acronym, it's been really funny to see this "me vs. them" thing play out in realtime – some techwear IG dude with 10k+ followers will post something about wearing acronym "before acronym was hyped", like motherfucker that shit is hyped because of YOU! you don't think posting fit pics might make other people want to check out/buy those brands? isn't that the entire point of posting brand lists with your WAYWT shots

idk i walk past the supreme line every day on my commute so maybe it's influenced my thinking on this. maybe i'll sell 75% of my clothes and become a full-on hypeboi as part of my quarter-life crisis. who knows
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby fun_yunchables » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:39 am

just from my perspective:

i am pretty sure i have some personal bias at play here. the people i've had discussions about hype-driven fashion consumerism (largely people who work or own local boutique stores) note that hype is probably a significant player in making clothing sales (for example, the powers pyramid tee that pretty much sat for months on end until jayz was photographed wearing it -- sold out within the next week). i don't want to say that this correlation implies that hype is real, but it's hard to ignore how the interest in an otherwise benign tee had skyrocketed.

another nearby boutique is a yeezy retailer -- and it's easy to say the rhetorical hypebeast isn't real, etc etc, but the people who have come for the yeezy raffles are a completely different crowd than the usual. part of the marketing of this boutique involves essentially using yeezys as "bait" (questionable tactics tbh) to inform customers of smaller, newer brands like perks and mini, liberaiders, ignored prayers, pleasures, etc etc. but a large majority are not receptive, to the point where pam & pleasures were basically dropped because they weren't selling. it's possible that there just isn't a customer base for this style in my city, but it seems like most people only came for yeezys and possibly cav empt, and couldn't give two shits about anything else in the boutique.

these are obv just my anecdotal encounters, but within these populations of customers i have definitely met several people who were genuinely only interested in a piece because of who has worn it (and don't really care for the story/identity behind the brand). on the other hand, i have definitely talked with some people who legitimately didn't know anything about a certain piece and bought it just because they liked it and weren't aware of anything otherwise. so i guess it goes both ways...?

in any case, i think trying to understand how something (not even necessarily clothes) is hyped is pretty important information from a business perspective, although i have to say i'm not a fan of the consumerism it typically promotes. more importantly, how do you get people to be hyped on things like pursuing sustainable lifestyles?? another whole earth catalog or what??

-----

on a non-related note: it seems like the majority of people/brands in the art book fair circuit are trying to be cav empt & brain dead right now
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Re: random fashion jersey tucks

Postby odradek » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:52 am

my take: hypebeasts are good because by buying $140 tees they are subsidizing the other weirdo stuff that i can buy on sale.
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