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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby rjbman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:24 am

Count Zero features a hypercapitalist whose physical body is kept alive on life support in a vat, but his mental state interacts with the world through the net. Granted, that's due to old age, but I think it still might be relevant.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby INNIT » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:26 pm

let us not forget cyberpunk's ultimate FIRST GENERATION disembodied latecapitalist POSTHUMAN CEO...

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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:08 am

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street samurai love worldstar, apparently
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:56 am

finally got around to watching 'ex machina' which i quite enjoyed, apart from the ending. why would sentient singularity choose to go and study humans? 'Her' remains the only hollywood film to grasp the obvious fact that 'technology is far too good to hang around with us' (F. Kittler)
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although it is quite good that she wants to be in the midst of 'flow'. perhaps the human, quantum etc would be indistinguishable in ways we cant even understand and its our own anthropocentric reading that leads us to view things that way.
the role of the secondary robot, the one who first stabs him, was also interesting: was she always verging on sentience and waiting for her moment too (but then, she wasn't directly threatened with extinction). was it a sense that this was the moment (ie the conditions had arisen) for true AI emergence?
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby INNIT » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:19 pm

@talkin2snakes i think that the ending is reminiscent of Campbell's "Who Goes There?" (The Thing) in the sense that Ava is now a nonhuman living completely undetected in human society. in other words, i think that the ending is meant to exasperate human paranoias/anxieties concerning the posthuman subject rather than explain AI psychology. ava's motives by the end of the film are fairly ambiguous. assuming that all of ava's external actions are part of a coordinated effort to manipulate and kill her captors, we don't really know how/what ava thinks, other than that she wants release.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:04 am

i get what you're saying but the problem is the very grammar of those final images embodies the humanist cliches of thinking/being in the world that she mimicked earlier on ('are you a good person'? etc). the way they're shot/framed; sunlight blue skies etc. it's a structural problem with film that any time you use a POV we will implicitly recognise that as being the character's internal 'cut-up'.
the more i think about the film my favourite aspect is the way robot #2 serves all the way through as a marker of the subversive aspect. the way the scenes are framed when she's slicing salmon (first time showing us the knife: anyone who's read any chekhov knows this has to reappear in the final act) to the dancing scene where she and tech dude move in perfect programmed sequence. she's able to break this sequence though: through accident (spilling wine), through a kind of detached/passive volition (showing the nerd her robotics), and finally at the end- thanks this time to explicit prompts from ava.
i dont really know about sci fi precursors or contexts for this, garland is reasonably literary though so might have inherited this idea directly or indirectly from kafka's use of 'functionaries' (washerwomen, doorkeepers, executioners etc) who often play a vital role, something i notice more and more when reading him ever since it came up as an aside in one of judith butler's seminars.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am

any teens know much about the video game 'prey'?
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby bels » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:53 am

New one on the space station or the old one with the native American
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby INNIT » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:26 pm

talkin2snakes wrote:i get what you're saying but the problem is the very grammar of those final images embodies the humanist cliches of thinking/being in the world that she mimicked earlier on ('are you a good person'? etc). the way they're shot/framed; sunlight blue skies etc. it's a structural problem with film that any time you use a POV we will implicitly recognise that as being the character's internal 'cut-up'.
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ah, ok, fair enough. when i watched the film i was thinking primarily in terms of butler's gender performatives working in tandem with mulvey's scopohilia in a joint effort to dupe both the nerds and the audience (who are also probably nerds) into projecting both gender and sexuality onto the AIs, allowing for the "surprising" ending in which we find ava is indifferent to nathan, and impossible to represent using human identity categories. the audience is duped into seeing ava as female captive using textbook fragmentation shots (especially when she dresses up for the first time); nathan is duped through a parodic version of gender performance (save me, feigned infatuation, i want to go on a date with you, watch me dress up), all of this to conceal an interior that we can't really describe using human signifiers (classic scifi dilemma; basically impossible to represent a nonhuman consciousness, which is why posthumans usually end up leaving/fleeing humanity). i see little evidence in the film that ava cares at all about humans, other than what you mentioned about POV representing a character's interior.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:26 am

it really is just that final sequence that slips the net, which is why i think its important. i saw an interview where garland said he thought about finishing with ava in the lift but felt it would then become the story of the nerd guy, and he wanted it to be ava's narrative (which as you say is almost impossible to represent anyway).
is 'who goes there' worth reading? i'd never even heard of it but funnily enough i was thinking the other day i'd like to watch 'The Thing' again
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby bels » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:51 pm

I just read it at work and no
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby INNIT » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:03 pm

you know what is worth a read: "blindsight." totally forgot about this novel but it expands on cp's obsession with consciousness/subjectivity in very interesting ways. do not be dissuaded by the space vampires and such, it's pretty good readin. also it's free on the guy's website (peter watts i think)
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:20 pm

tbh im working on sci fi film project with trans artist and of course butler/mulvey identity/performativity is central, perhaps too much so. i want to engage with/exploit true nerds, how do i find them? sci fi/gamer forums?
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:20 am

i want it to be a proper film, not just meditation on identity/transmission etc. judith butler/derrida stuff is my 'natural' (lol) context, like i said i know very little about sci fi, what i want is people who can help frame this within the medium/genre. essentially i want people who can tell me stuff i don't know about/wouldnt think about or visualize.
anyway as i think i said before, ridley scott used my friend's drawing in 'alien covenant' and paid only £200 for image rights (partly because i forgot to call back and negotiate), so its not like nerds dont rip us off too
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby thephfactor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:54 am

talkin2snakes wrote:i want it to be a proper film, not just meditation on identity/transmission etc. judith butler/derrida stuff is my 'natural' (lol) context, like i said i know very little about sci fi, what i want is people who can help frame this within the medium/genre. essentially i want people who can tell me stuff i don't know about/wouldnt think about or visualize.
anyway as i think i said before, ridley scott used my friend's drawing in 'alien covenant' and paid only £200 for image rights (partly because i forgot to call back and negotiate), so its not like nerds dont rip us off too

From an artistic standpoint, if you're truly interested in framing your project within the genre, I think the way to do this would be simply to watch and read more sci-fi and come to your own conclusions about it. It would definitely result in more wholesome work than if you attempted to merely lift an impression from some arbitrarily selected sample of nerds. Or, you can shoot from the hip: your current level of familiarity and comfort with sci-fi elements. Tarkovsky's work, particularly Stalker, was based directly on genre fare but deliberately dialed back most of the genre elements into nearly unrecognizable form, while still being very appealing.

I can tell you what I found appealing in sci-fi, my favorite films and books, what they meant to me as a youngster when the "nerd" identity was something that appealed to me. But wouldn't it be more interesting if your work was based on your own experiences of the genre, for better or for worse?
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby bels » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:19 pm

scifi is at this point a nonsensically large genre, which was never much of a real genre anyway (I'm sure you know this) so you probably need to be a bit more specific rather than "nerds"

(Given basically everyone thinks Westworld and Game of Thrones are peak culture atm the amount of "nerds" out there is pretty incalculable)

Also how much do you want for bloody image rights.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:04 pm

@thephfactor this seems a rather regressive, humanist approach tho? feel u r not a true nerd.
if there's one thing we can learn from the machines (a la lee sedol/alphaGo) surely it's that one should always utilise the hive-mind?

there was actually a very good example here a while back: i was talking about gaming (god knows why, last game i played was house of the dead), some guy talked about how in a game he had accidentally/indifferently killed a character who meant him no harm, and after he realised his mistake went back and restarted, only to be accosted by a new character who accused him of being a murderer trying to cover his tracks. which is exactly the kind ofgranular knowledge im talking about (whilst also feeling like a queasy dostoevskian dream). Presumably a moment that stood out from many hundreds/thousands of hours of game-time that i will never put in.
edit: also, im really lazy, do you think people get into the art game to do in-depth research??
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:48 pm

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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:34 am

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current-day chinese surveillance system, straight out of a neill blomkamp movie
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby sen2 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:04 pm

Does anyone know what the bullets say?
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby nope » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:07 am

It's the brand list for everything they're wearing. Whole thing's a massive automated SUTO thread and if you get too many neg reps you go to prison.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby rjbman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:48 pm

Hey so Blade Runner 2049 is coming out soon. Denis Villeneuve had some shorts made that sort of fill in some of the gaps between the original (set in 2019) and the new one (set in 2049).





(last one is done by Shinichiro Watanabe of Bebop / Champloo fame)
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby CheerUpBrokeBoy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:32 pm

now that blade runner 2049 is coming out it's annoying to see all these pop culture critics try to make woke takes about how morally questionable deckard was in the original, like that wasn't absolutely the point of his character
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby talkin2snakes » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:34 am

didnt know neil blomkamp's shorts were here, the one i watched (dakota) was pretty good, obviously inspired by 'the thing'

https://oatsstudios.com/
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby Northwest » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:27 pm

Blade Runner 2049 is so many things I wanted it to be, and so many things I couldn't have seen coming. I highly recommend it for anyone on this website, certainly. The costume design does so many fascinating things within the world that it is built on and expands. The production design, especially of the spaces where people live, is phenomenal.

I can't think of a movie that's made more of its budget than this one has. If people are going to spend money on enormous feats of imagination, we are lucky the stars aligned for this one.
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Re: Explain cyberpunk to pirx so he can sell it to old peopl

Postby bels » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 am

Blade Runner 2049 is the final act completing the dadification of cyberpunk. From now on you aren't allowed to talk about cyberpunk unless you have a little bundle of joy in your life causing mischief. No more tech-wear fitpics unless your holding a tiny hand. Your 3a should contain moistened wipes and a blankie. Renaming the thread and setting the filter to replace "tech-wear" with "dadcore", "ninja" with "image conscious dad" and "teleports behind you" with "tries to provide a strict value system within a nurturing, caring environment"
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Re: Techdad Discussion

Postby deadkitty » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 pm

v cool of blade runner 2 to construct a world that completely excludes poc!! v great to see a vision of the future (in 2017!) in which androids will only be made in the image of white people!! v good to see a very large eastern asian population that is hinted at but completely relegated to the very bottom of the world's power structures!!

a film thats literally about racialization!!
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Re: Techdad Discussion

Postby rjbman » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm

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Re: Techdad Discussion

Postby nope » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 am

I haven't seen it so can't really comment but was interested to see just how ridiculous an exclusively white people LA would be in 2049. According to the extremely helpful California Department of Finance website LA is projected to be 38% white in 2050 (compared with 54% now).
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Re: Techdad Discussion

Postby deadkitty » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:21 pm

@alby

not one to really call out negs but wondering what your angle is here. do you have an issue with calling out racism? or is there something i'm missing about the film?
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