Kynlíf

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Re: Kynlíf

Postby chadnik » Sun May 18, 2014 11:32 pm

As for race fetishization, I agree that it's very pernicious (as are all the "positive" racisms, e.g. black people and dancing, Asians and math, etc.) and I'm also always a bit shocked at how prevalent it seems to be in porn (post-racial society, my ass). I've been on the receiving end some (el oh el); had a few comments about how great it was getting head from a Jewish girl, something something about being more sex-hungry than average white girls, etc. Haven't had a partner insensitive enough to make such comments in a while, but they were always shocking and a little dehumanizing to hear (though I'm sure others have experienced much worse).

And I definitely think porn has altered the way people have sex. I think camera angles play into it: close-skin-contact, super intimate sex, which can feel great, doesn't look "good" on camera when bodies are a jumble—more gymnastic positions photograph better. So there's a lot of intimacy that's not shown, and usually not a lot of foreplay I don't think. That's not always a bad thing (not everyone wants to have/see intimate sex all the time), but it's a thing. And certainly body hair preferences have been shaped by porn, if nothing else. I haven't watched professional, mainstream porn in a long time though so maybe things have changed.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby exprof » Mon May 19, 2014 12:23 am

Bleh. As the product of race fetishization (my mom into white men, my dad into asian women) I have really mixed feelings about it. On one hand can we really be held accountable/is it so detrimental if a person has strong preferences to a specific set of features? I mean at the end of the day is it really any different than to preferring blondes over redheads? But on the other it sucks to have someone pass such a huge judgement over someone just based on race, or passing over someone just because they aren't your preferred race or wtv.

As for intimacy in porn I agree 100% with @chadnik. I don't know if you guys saw the thread on two x chromosomes about how a woman wants to start a porn company geared towards women, (that is, more intimate, hotter guys, more "interesting" interracial, more realistic bondage/bdsm etc.) but I think it's a pretty awesome idea. Companies like X-Art have helped porn become "better" (especially wrt cinematography, "actor" choices, etc.) but there's still a long way to go. I think most women think of porn as very degrading (I'd say some of it is) so it'll be interesting to see how people will react to something where the a man is being "objectified". I do love this idea though, lots of things are still generally lacking in porn from at least a women's perspective.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby can- » Mon May 19, 2014 12:37 am

men are already objectified in porn, often they are literally just a dick in the shot (and usually it is a physically unrealistic example of the male form)

not coming at this with some kind of aggro MRA jizz, but it feels important to recognize that most porn reinforces the gendered sexualization of both men and women, and it's damaging when boys are taught that they are just erect penises who have to be always ready to fuck just as it is damaging for women to be taught they only matter in their value to men or their looks
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby starfox64 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:40 am

you guys know about race play? that shit freaks me out.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby exprof » Mon May 19, 2014 12:49 am

cameron- wrote:most porn reinforces the gendered sexualization of both men and women, and it's damaging when boys are taught that they are just erect penises who have to be always ready to fuck just as it is damaging for women to be taught they only matter in their value to men or their looks


Right, and the question will be whether or not female-oriented porn can be in that tiny part that doesn't reinforce these gender stereotypes. From all I know about the porn business today there are few women in the involved so it'll be interesting to see what female directors/cinematographers can do.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby chadnik » Mon May 19, 2014 1:17 am

@starfox64 It's unnerving, but is it okay if it's fully consensual (as most kink should theoretically be)? Here's a piece with the experiences of two PoC defending their willful participation in race play—one describes her ability to choose the degree, extent, and partner in her race play as an expression of freedom, and another thinks that his racialized sex work gives people an appropriate outlet for their feelings. Personally, I'm not sure that it isn't deeply internalized racism (I don't agree with race play being used as a form of validation that everyone has "a little bit" of racism in them that needs unmitigated release of any kind), but not knowing much more about it all I suppose I ought to withhold judgement.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby Syeknom » Mon May 19, 2014 2:21 am

starfox64 wrote:you guys know about race play? that shit freaks me out.


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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Wed May 21, 2014 6:10 am

anyone here ever had a committed relationship turn into an open relationship? what was that like / how did you go about it / how did you feel going into it versus being in it a few months or so later?
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Thu May 22, 2014 3:36 pm

@prawnzee, what makes you say so?
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby jrisk » Thu May 22, 2014 4:30 pm

You should search for "open relationship" on /r/relationships. admittedly, you'll really only see the worst case scenarios since that's all that gets posted, but it be able to shed some light on the subject.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby prawnzee » Thu May 22, 2014 8:29 pm

@balloons
well
is this something you really want, or is this something just that came up?
I think this is a thing, that comes up with people in relationships that want to have the good things they have, but also want to have something else. it's not really well fuck i'm too drunk to type just ping me tomorrow so I can give you a proper response :D
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby hunnish » Thu May 22, 2014 8:43 pm

No one ever had the idea to change to an open relationship when everything was already going smoothly. It's like those trial separations for couples on the edge of divorce; it usually just shows them that they really need to be apart.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby thatbiglake » Thu May 22, 2014 10:03 pm

nn
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Thu May 22, 2014 10:50 pm

she confided in me that she is really starting to dislike being the girl-who-has-to-sit-out-or-have-less-fun-at-parties-because-she's-in-a-long-term-relationship-in-high-school. or like, miss the adrenaline/excitement/uncertainty of flirting with someone at a party is more what she craves than some new outlet for her emotions/sexual desire (as far as I know). it made sense to me. I feel like we're pretty tight emotionally and sexually. rough patches here and there but generally a pretty solid companionship for a bit over a year now. and I sort of feel similarly to her. I'd be straight up lying if I said that the prospect of intimacy with other girls didn't get my heart racing. sometimes elevator sexual tension is all it takes to get me going, yknow? but in seriousness it's something we're considering trying, though starting cautiously. would dip our toes in the water by setting a limit at kissing/touching other people, no further. lots of logistics to work out (do I tell you who it's with? wait, who can I and can't I do anything with? do we tell people about this or just kind of bring it up when it's relevant? do I tell you how far I went? what if I start to fall in love with someone else?) and it would require more trust than I've ever put in another person before but it was something I thought could feasibly work if we took it slow to see how we like it.

but this

thatbiglake wrote:Two friends of mine just got out of one, they were dating and she left her for the guy that had entered into their relationship.


instilled within me a very lurid sense of panic. jeez. It's making me think of some worst case scenario where like, we try it out and I find out it's not really for me but she gets really into it so I'm kind of stuck in it and then over the summer while I'm out of town she essentially replaces me with someone else that I allowed into the relationship in the first place. urghhh.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby UnwashedMolasses » Thu May 22, 2014 10:55 pm

If you do not have 100% open and honest communication throughout the process then it will quickly sour and ruin your relationship. Don't fuck around with this kind of thing. You need to have complete faith and trust in her. Honestly, this is not the kind of issue you should be having a year into a relationship. Do some serious talking to figure out if there aren't other contributing issues.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Thu May 22, 2014 11:14 pm

I don't even see it as an issue as much as just a general movement or something like that. something we're both interested in trying but also very reluctant/tentative to get into because of the possible damage it could bring to ourselves and our relationship
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby ramseames » Thu May 22, 2014 11:21 pm

it'll ruin your relationship

one of you will start sleeping with someone else real fast and then the other one will get second thoughts and want to go back but even if you do there'll always be lingering issues around it and if they don't want to then it'll end right there
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby agvs » Thu May 22, 2014 11:22 pm

@balloons I'm going to be straight up honest with you from a creepy old man's perspective. It's not going to work. I'm not oooooold old but I'm old enough to have seen some shit and I can 99% guarantee you that at your age and stage in your relationship with this girl there is no way it's gonna work out with everyone happy in the end. People can neg away if you think I'm being too negative but that's the stone cold truth. Most human beings cannot successfully navigate the waters of an open relationship. Someone is eventually going to get attached or jealous or have feelings for someone else.

I'm not telling you not to do it. I'm just telling you to be prepared to lose your girlfriend (or her losing you). You guys obviously have some issues to discuss and no matter what choice you make I can't tell you it will end well if either of you have a real desire to be intimate with people outside of your relationship. Now I gotta get out of this thread. There's a Mr. Hansen at my door.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Thu May 22, 2014 11:30 pm

I appreciate all the advice guys, thank you all, even you @agvs though your experiences from colonial times are slightly dated (really tho)

does it affect anyone's perception if we've discussed that we're going to end it in approximately a year (right after senior year, before summer, to give us time to create emotional distance to prepare for college with its physical distance)? plan to stay friends after that, if that works out (i.e. not going to just cut ties and never speak as soon as we get to our respective colleges), but we've come to terms with the inherent fatalism of a high school relationship.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby UnwashedMolasses » Thu May 22, 2014 11:42 pm

balloons wrote:we've come to terms with the inherent fatalism of a high school relationship.


Fuck that noise, I'm still with my high school girlfriend after almost 5 years and I moved 13 hours away to Miami.

The fact that you've already decided to end the relationship at a certain point makes the desire for an open relationship seem less like a progression and more like you're both (or at least she is) ready to be out of the relationship, you're just allowing the emotional bond to maintain the obligation. An open relationship is something you only try if you really love and trust someone, and not to be blunt, but if you two had that, you wouldn't be planning on breaking up.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Fri May 23, 2014 1:12 am

she & I are very physical lovers. this is something we discovered over winter break when I was still in LA but she was in NY - we both commented on knowing that we missed one another but just being bad at communicating that over text or phone. once she got back to LA we picked up right were we left off, but it was apparent that this relationship would be extremely difficult to maintain over distance, especially in college when you're meeting all these new people / developing yourself / changing so much. feels like everywhere I turn someone is ready to tell me that I'm being too idealist, too pessimistic, too clingy or too apathetic.

UnwashedMolasses wrote:seem less like a progression and more like you're both (or at least she is) ready to be out of the relationship,


I don't know why it's unreasonable, or some sort of proof that we actually don't love each other, to have already come to terms with knowing long distance won't work for us instead of trying to draw out a relationship at the possible cost of our friendship. it feels like you inferred a lot from a few sentences & constructed a perception of my situation which is entirely offbase.

UnwashedMolasses wrote:you're just allowing the emotional bond to maintain the obligation.


I would like clarification on this, though. not really sure what it means.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby UnwashedMolasses » Fri May 23, 2014 1:37 am

I did infer a lot from a few sentences, and I apologize if it was off base. A few sentences is all I've got to go on.

Communication is the most essential aspect of any relationship. Everything else will fail without it. Trying something crazy like an open relationship - which already fails in the majority of circumstances - without a strong basis of communication is lunacy.

As far as the emotional bond bit: it's possible to be in love with someone and have a shit relationship (not saying you do). It'd be great and Disney if love was enough but it's not. It takes effort, investment, honesty, sacrifice, empathy. A strong relationship can survive through trials. Love, not necessarily. If you're committing to ending the relationship it signifies that you've already accepted that it's not strong enough to maintain even if you care about each other.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby zayg » Fri May 23, 2014 10:31 am

@balloons I hate to be that dude who thinks he knows way more than someone younger just because I'm a few years older, but I think in her case she just doesn't have the maturity to understand the situation she is in. Once a relationship leaves the passionate stage and enters the companion stage, everyone misses the adrenaline rush of flirting and having fun. I think her youth has left her void of the maturity required that allows you to view those feelings objectively. Flirting at parties is fun - even if you're in a relationship. The issue is that she seems to think that wanting to flirt at parties means that she needs to open your relationship to a stage that frankly, you don't seem comfortable with judging by your cautiousness.

I worry that this situation would end with you being jealous and her regretting what she did as soon as she escalates from "innocent party flirting" to some sort of relationship.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby balloons » Sat May 24, 2014 1:28 am

everyone, thank you for the insight, patience, and openness. it's been invaluable & I genuinely think I may have been walking into a huge mistake that may have cost me my relationship. would like to apologize if I came off as defensive at any point; this all weighs heavily on me and I'm not sure what to do with the relationship in the future. I'll talk to her tomorrow.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby freddy » Fri May 30, 2014 1:41 am

Not to derail the stream of conversation here but nonetheless still very community-relevant; I would like to see more "fashion" in porn, just sayin'. (smiling)

I think such "fashion erotica-porno-cinematography" on a more authentic scale can change pornography for we know it today that which can curtail a lot of the aforementioned stereotyping and reaffirming of what xyz norms that come with self-lead participatory-viewership masturbatory-voyeuristic audience.

Like, I know there has been some block-buster releases but the "screenplay" can be way too sexualized from the get-go, which I won't discredit the impulsiveness of spontaneous sexual arousal. I suppose the same goes for pornos trying to ascertain a eroticized story which is really half-baked and half-assed shenanigans. Maybe I'm imagining a combination of an Hollywood-level actor/porn-star character and scriptwriting here. Maybe an actual movie but an "'adult-only'-rated" one with actual sexual foreplay and intercourse. Who knows.

But I do know if we're going to critic the pornography industry for their essentially cheap and fast flicks, which ought to me sound a lot like psuedo-chic fast-fashion industry and psuedo-celebrity YouTube-stars that has reap havoc today, is also signaling the need that there needs to promote higher quality content because of all the noise out there. Perhaps if these pornography studies had more talented costume designers/stylists, then the mainstream public would feel more compelled to ascertain a sort of collective "plausible deniability" for porn-viewership come early Monday morning water-bubbler talk at the workplace, allowing folks to rationalizing way to talk more openly about porn –- nonetheless critic and express how it affects themselves emotionally. "That African American actress wearing S/S 09 Parachute Junya Watanabe gave great fellatio to the Asian actor that wore F/W 11 Ralph Lauren Purple Label navy-blue pin-striped power-suit!"

Essentially I am saying that the pornography industry is still relatively in its prime and infancy, albeit nonetheless ever-growing, when compared to Hollywood. And if we're going to critique pornography as such that a film or social critics would, then I ought to believe the industry should get to Hollywood-level. Right now, pornography is sort of serious for affecting our intimate lives but not talked about as much, and I think if the industry continues to commercialize themselves even more that the mainstream can have better discussion about it. When I say "talk" not in a tongue-in-cheek way perversion, like actually psychoanalyzing the movie.

And if fashion designers can break social norms with their ascetic creations, why can't we inject some of that in pornography or in its perversion "pornos"? In many ways fashion shows are very much pornography if we don't bastardize from its inherent meaning. The less we destigmatize porn and remove moral impositions is when we can have 4real discussion. Obviously, we have Hollywood movies are undeniably essentially veering overtly on the sexual-side of things, but I conversely think the pornography industry can inversely legitimatize themselves some more if they continued to take-on more Hollywood tactics and methods, which they are, continually so in the future. It sounds like marketing "product placement" here, but I think product-placement fashion can be a good "talking point" - well at least for me.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby blankinput » Fri May 30, 2014 6:09 pm

What...the fuck...Freddy.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby deadkitty » Sat May 31, 2014 7:01 am

my grandpa was an award winning porn editor
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby bels » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:24 pm

What award.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby odradek » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:47 pm

Let's pose an ethical dilemma: something you really want and something you really don't want in the same package. The betting man should sit this round out, safety is paramount. As an experienceonaut, though, I made the poorer of the two choices. The result? This.

My roommates work in a bar and they both close on Sunday evenings. The mood is pretty light and the open bottles need to be finished if they're going to go bad by Tuesday, so I find myself in there a lot, finishing off pitchers of sangria and singing 90s pop hits to make sure the restaurant clears out. Last night, My roommate's girlfriend was there with a friend of hers. They had been to a wine festival and continued at the bar. The friend had just finished grad school and is currently in a period of repose until her internship starts; to hear her tell it, this was her first chance to get drunk in a while, and holy shit was she taking advantage.

After some time, my roommate's girlfriend comes over to me. "This might sound weird, but will you make out with her?"
"Yeah," I say. "That sounds a little weird."
"It's not a big deal, girls make out with guys all the time. She just wants to make out with someone and if it's not you, it'll be-" she points to someone else, a notorious lothario "and I don't want that to happen, so it's you."

I'm very uncomfortable with this. It feels artificial and gross, but it's couched in this white knight sort of thing. Hell, I'm doing her a favor plus another favor! It takes a lot of convincing, but I agree on the condition that the girl actually talk to me. I make no mention of the fact that I am somehow a "safe choice" for a girl.

"She's kinda shy and awkward and has self esteem issues, she doesn't really get to do this." Alarm bells ring, but it's for a friend, right? Right? Plus the girl looks kinda like Cameron Diaz. We go to another bar. We sit. We talk. Hopefully she's sobering up. Not really - She's talking about how she HAS to get her car and drive home. She can barely stand. We cannot convince her otherwise. We make out. My work is done, put her to bed, please.

I get back to my apartment and hey! everyone's there! She's there, too! She's still falling down drunk! We get her a pillow and a blanket so she can sleep on the couch. I go to bed.

She comes into my room. "Do you want to make out some more? If not I'm going to go drive home." What. Whatever. As long as she sleeps here and doesn't do anything fucking stupid.

We make out. She pulls off my pants. "Do you want me to give you a blowjob?"
"Are you in any kind of state to make that decision?"
All of a sudden all the lights turn on and she's lucid. "Why would you ask that? I'm asking you if you want a blowjob, I'm willing to give you one. Make a decision." Of course I want a blow job. I spend most of my day wanting blow jobs. I don't want the girl who's deciding to give me one to be barely cognizant of what fucking planet she's on. "Well? Come on, I'm waiting." She sounds convincing enough, I'm amazed but incredulous at how quickly she's sobered up. "If I give you a blow job, you need to put on a condom."
"Uh, that actually sounds miserable."
She's just done a bunch of med school shit, she's a paranoid hypochondriac - she goes through my sex history. She really wants to give me a blowjob. Like, a lot. I consent to the condom.

Getting a blow job with a condom on is terrible. My god. Luckily, as a man who spends most of his days being mindful of his thoughts, I am, with great concentration, able to finish.

She's lucid again. "Did you finish?"
"Uh, yeah...?"
"Don't lie to me. Are you lying to me?"
"I'm not lying, what kind of proof do you need?"
"A lot. But I'll believe you." She falls back into drunkenness. "Now you can go to sleep and I can go get my car."
What? "No, you can't. I mean, even if you could figure out where to go, it's in a locked garage, you can't get in."
"I can."
"Even assuming you can, you shouldn't be driving. Absolutely. You have nowhere to be tomorrow. We have a couch, or you can sleep in here. Stay here."
"I have to get my car."
This goes on for a while.
"If I give you a back rub, will you go to sleep and then I can go get my car?" She starts to give me a backrub and actually it feels really nice.
"Umm, I'm not going to sleep until I know you're not driving anywhere."
"I promise I won't hurt anyone."
"What? You can't make that promise."
"I can." She stands up, then puts her hand out to shake mine. "Nice to meet you."
I look puzzled. She leaves. My roommate's girlfriend walks her out, somewhere.

Apparently, I'm the only one of my friends who is at all bothered by this, and I'm really, really bothered.
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Re: Kynlíf

Postby Stingray Sam » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:01 pm

guys can be fun
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