Here is ramdomthought!

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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby BobbyZamora » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:34 am

UnwashedMolasses wrote:
BobbyZamora wrote:now is not the time to lament the failings of neoliberalism and centrist policies. Bernie lost already, you have only one option to stop this before it goes any further.


Trump is bad but he did not personally and singlehandedly set America on the path for fascism, we have been on this path for a long time. He may have accelerated it or taken its mask off but he is not responsible for creating the conditions, he's simply taken advantage of them.

I'm sorry but if you're going to argue that people have to vote for Joe Biden because Trump is uniquely fascist then you're arguing that fascism can be voted out, which is absurd. Fascism does not appear because one bad guy gets voted in and it does not disappear because one bad guy gets voted out. It's not easy to define fascism but historically it has always arisen out of an absolute failure of the institutions of power of a nation to help the majority of the people of that nation. Calling neoliberalism an alternative to fascism is silly because neoliberalism is what guts those institutions, forces them to serve the interests of capital, and disregards the material needs of the working class. It is not an alternative to fascism, it is a pathway towards it.

I understand your frustration but I would strongly recommend looking towards other methods of politically engaging. Vote, by all means, but understand that Joe Biden getting elected does not mean that fascism in America will go away. Significant political change in America has never happened because the right person was voted into power. Political change historically has only happened as a result of mass political action, and sometimes politicians get pressured into doing shit that is good at the end of that. LBJ didn't pass the Civil Rights Act because he gave a shit about black people, he passed it because of the mass political action of the people.


conceding power to what is obviously a fascist figurehead isn't a good idea just because a vote for the other guy doesn't solve the problem. Fascism most certainly is not binary and America has certainly been on the descent towards fascism for longer than anyone here has been alive but there's a tipping point that you really don't want to cross that I'm fairly certain will be reached if Trump remains in power.

did you at least vote in the democratic primary? do you pay attention to who your local representative is and what they stand for? are you ready to move to a self-sufficient commune to live with other revolutionaries who share your mindset? or do you just wish to wax poetic about the potential of such a revolution?
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby maj » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:51 pm

luv to log onto people who mostly agree with each other arguing about someone neither of them r enthusiastic about and will both probably end up voting for the lesser bad guy and be disappointed at the further stagnation of their society over the next 10 years.

if we accept voting doesn't matter in the big picture, then we can accept that by voting for the more likable shit head doesn't mean we're endorsing them or think it will change something other than possibly removing the bigger shit head (yeah yeah they're both big shit heads ones just nicer about it yeah, i get you, yup! im on your side!!!! you dont have to tell me!!!). but similarly, it's hard 2 resent someone not being enthused to leave the house if it's raining on election day 2 vote for the guying saying "oh no you cant have good things but, guys.....that other guy hey?"
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby BobbyZamora » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:38 pm

I don't live in the USA, I cannot vote against Trump. Believe me if I could vote I would. I'm speaking as a very concerned citizen from the USA's neighboring country regarding a fascist figurehead who is actively antagonistic towards us.
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby UnwashedMolasses » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:22 pm

BobbyZamora wrote:did you at least vote in the democratic primary? do you pay attention to who your local representative is and what they stand for? are you ready to move to a self-sufficient commune to live with other revolutionaries who share your mindset? or do you just wish to wax poetic about the potential of such a revolution?


Wasn't gonna respond to this condescending nonsense but I've had a bad day so fuck it

I don't know what weirdo strawman you're talking at

I've made two points in the recent conversation:

1) voting is not an effective means of combating fascism

2) you shouldn't try to shame people into voting, especially when they have justified reasons to disengage from electoral politics

At no point at all have I encouraged anyone to not vote
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby maj » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:52 am

personally i think it's ok to not have a solution, you can recognise voting is little impact in the grand scheme of things and that even if you had a leftist to vote for on a national political platform they would likely betray morals you hold dear (bernie), or vote for a climate denying, racist who merely handwaves that they're "listening and learning" in between seizures (biden), and not have to offer anything in return. it's ok to be disenfranchised, loads of people are!

there is a trend to in politics that disenfranchised people are somehow unaware, nieve or just don't care about people to not vote, that they're some other, and i'd argue this has perverted our view of politics for decades. "no i couldn't POSSIBLY be a non voter, i'm college educated and engaged!! i have a moral compass!! being disenfranchised is for the dumb....i uhhh mean....those without the privilege". It's something the right understands very well and why they favour voter suppression so much, they understand a disenfranchised voter is dangerous to their project so they've spent billions and decades supressing them, intentionally, the reactionary response to this is "that's more reason TOO VOTE", but it's not, simply telling someone isn't going to undo voter suppression or disenfranchisement. the center/left must work to re-enfranchise these people, something they failed to do four years ago, and argubly failing to do now, the draw of "a literal nazi" in the white house they're relying on is certainly a draw for a lot of people to be re-enfranchised. But similarly, many have recognised the opposition to them will do the same to them but slower, be it through letting them get cancer and having no cause to treatment, to bombing their relatives, friends and comrades aboard, or having a history of racially discriminating against them until it was politically unviable, much as they have experienced before "mr cheezit face" entered the white house.

it's with this which is why i have empathy for those who don't vote, surviving is hard enough tbqh, and after years of having the shit kicked out of you for who you are, economically drained by both the people who wish to harm you and those who supposedly will "save you from them", it's no wonder you sense the futility of it all and don't have a solution for an alternative.

i think everyone is looking for a bit of hope, a silver lining or light at the end of the tunnel, which is good, it needs to be done, but if someone can't see it, that's ok, they're working on just being able to survive in the dark, they're not some other, they're not any more morally perverse, they're just you or i, our friends and family, normal people trying to get on in life.
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby fun_yunchables » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:08 am

people who say vote blue no matter who are usually disconnected from the greater populace
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby windowflowers » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:12 pm

a little off topic, and this is kind of a personal thing, and i certainly recognize the effect american politics have on the rest of the world, so i do understand people's interest in it, but as an american living in canada, and regularly interacting with people from other parts of the world, it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth hearing people who don't live in the US and are not directly affected in the same way as people who live here by american politics talk about this election and what americans "need to do" as if it's some simple equation US citizens are too dumb to understand, and not actually a very difficult and complicated situation on all fronts that's built up over the course of years and years.

this isn't directed at anyone in this thread exactly—more the broader discourse i see in general—but, as ignorant as much of the US populace is, maybe consider that people who have lived here their entire lives and personally experienced the results of our political system are maybe not complete idiots and maybe have valid reasons why they're choosing to vote or not vote in the way they are, that people watching from across the border or across the pond are maybe not actually actual experts on just because they follow american politics as a hobby.
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby INNIT » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:32 pm

windowflowers wrote:a little off topic, and this is kind of a personal thing, and i certainly recognize the effect american politics have on the rest of the world, so i do understand people's interest in it, but as an american living in canada, and regularly interacting with people from other parts of the world, it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth hearing people who don't live in the US and are not directly affected in the same way as people who live here by american politics talk about this election and what americans "need to do" as if it's some simple equation US citizens are too dumb to understand, and not actually a very difficult and complicated situation on all fronts that's built up over the course of years and years.

this isn't directed at anyone in this thread exactly—more the broader discourse i see in general—but, as ignorant as much of the US populace is, maybe consider that people who have lived here their entire lives and personally experienced the results of our political system are maybe not complete idiots and maybe have valid reasons why they're choosing to vote or not vote in the way they are, that people watching from across the border or across the pond are maybe not actually actual experts on just because they follow american politics as a hobby.


While I'd never claim that Americans are "too dumb" to understand their own political system and vote (or note vote) accordingly, I think that it's actually supremely important for non-US citizens to contribute to discussions about US politics. You mention that American politics effect the rest of the world, but lets not understate the importance of these effects: the US has been a massive force of imperialism in the twenty- and twenty-first centuries, and maintains a hegemonic role in the global capitalist system. People living in nations occupied by the US military directly experience the violent effects of the US political system each and ever day, and their voices need to be included in these conversations, especially when electing one candidate over another might mean reduced military/economic intervention (or genocide management, as jylt put it). While a US citizen's personal experience of the US political system should be an important factor in how they decide to vote (or not vote), I see it as utterly close-minded (in the context of a highly interconnected global capitalist system) to not also consider the ways in which the joint apparatus of the US military, economy and State expands across the entire globe and continuously fucks shit up. But yeah, there's obviously a respectful way of going about these discussions, and it involves dropping condescending presumptions and false notions of superiority and actually engaging in a real dialogue that takes into account the experiences of those who live in the United States.
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:29 pm

JewTurk wrote:Do you

a) vote

b) not vote, and hope the systems crumbles so we can rebuild sooner



if you're in cali vote (or another firm blue state) for downballot and vote green or some shit for president


if you're in a red state, same shit

if you're in a purple state consider harm reduction in whether or not you choose to vote, don't fault anyone either way

all of this imo of course!
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:30 pm

does anyone want some free pants
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:30 pm

i have a lot of pants that i do not wear that i am too lazy to sell and want them to go to a good home
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:31 pm

finally a gym nearby enough to walk to. 1.2 miles to get there. perfect for warming up >(smiling)
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:32 pm

Lodge 49 fucking rules
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:33 pm

Image
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:34 pm

my cat is completely codependent. he's 13 or 14 and healthy. I've been feeding him irregularly and now he will not stop shouting at me for food randomly

do not make my mistake
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 pm

i know people here are mad as hell at antonio from eidos and 18 east and this is related to that but i do not care and i learned about these throws from him which are really cool Image
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:37 pm

people aren't good at posting online anymore
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:37 pm

being bad at posting was cool when everyone was good at posting but now it sucks
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby ramdomthought » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:46 pm

ripping off the philly(?) dsa and organizing doing car repairs in a local church parking lot (brakelights and such) has ruled

didn't do much but mutual aid (we should just call it being part of a community or something) is damn satisfying
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby rjbman » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:46 am

worst feeling in the world is when u gotta shit but you're 1 hour into a 3 hour bike ride into the wilderness with no civilization & more importantly no TP, and it's bumpy as fuck and every bounce you feel it sorta wanna creep out & so you can't even hurry
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby rjbman » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:47 am

at least you get to watch your friend nosedive into a pile of sand they thought was more firm & come out looking like an extra from Dune (delayed to Oct 2021)
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Re: Here is ramdomthought!

Postby mooncorp » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:08 pm

last night me and my friend were sitting waiting for our sandwiches and a guy came over and said to him

God told me to come back to tell you that I love you
To express his love for you
and i feel like god is with you in the moment
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