RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby SteevMike » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:32 pm

prawnzee wrote:1. is it really? sounds like you're insulting someone because you don't agree with the reasoning

3. it's more about that there are games which include and/or deal with these themes, and I don't believe that's inherently bad. it doesn't mean that these games would make the people who play them more misogynist, violent or anything else. we're talking if the "tropes" are good or bad, if they're not negatively affecting people and their views, can they really be bad and what's the loss here? should we just censure everything, if a minor, but vocal, group gets offended? again, no one is saying that these tropes don't exist, but if they're really doing any harm

5. I don't think that it's inherently bad to make sure if they're legitimate or faked by either opposing party. proof is needed, whichever the case may be, otherwise it only leads to he said - she said -situations. obviously illegally threatening someone's life is, well, illegal

your arguments really lacked substance, like you said, @goodintentions expressed his opinions better :cool:
"if everyone thought like me -> more people would be right -> and less people would be wrong"



1. she has a pretty bad track record on being right about things

3. Include? Yes. Deal with? How? Nobody is saying that video games can't include sex or violence but that they rely on them to a degree that trivializes the gravity of those situations. And yes, following up on cameron's point, this is something that most media is guilty of. But why are gamers so sensitive to their media receiving the same level of critique?

5. I don't see why proof (to the degree that breitbart.com reporters and known moron Davis Aurini call police departments to verify that threats have been reported) is necessary. You can listen to someone who says they are threatened and empathize with them without putting the burden of proof on them. This isn't a court of law.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby fraxcell » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:21 pm



This game looks great. Beautiful art, done in part by Olly Moss, who does all those cool posters and stuff.
Also involved are the designers/writers of the Walking Dead season 1, and James Benson, who did that cool Half Life 1 first person animation video.

Gameplay/Q&A video here
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby prawnzee » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:53 pm

SteevMike wrote:
prawnzee wrote:1. is it really? sounds like you're insulting someone because you don't agree with the reasoning

3. it's more about that there are games which include and/or deal with these themes, and I don't believe that's inherently bad. it doesn't mean that these games would make the people who play them more misogynist, violent or anything else. we're talking if the "tropes" are good or bad, if they're not negatively affecting people and their views, can they really be bad and what's the loss here? should we just censure everything, if a minor, but vocal, group gets offended? again, no one is saying that these tropes don't exist, but if they're really doing any harm

5. I don't think that it's inherently bad to make sure if they're legitimate or faked by either opposing party. proof is needed, whichever the case may be, otherwise it only leads to he said - she said -situations. obviously illegally threatening someone's life is, well, illegal

your arguments really lacked substance, like you said, @goodintentions expressed his opinions better :cool:
"if everyone thought like me -> more people would be right -> and less people would be wrong"



1. she has a pretty bad track record on being right about things

3. Include? Yes. Deal with? How? Nobody is saying that video games can't include sex or violence but that they rely on them to a degree that trivializes the gravity of those situations. And yes, following up on cameron's point, this is something that most media is guilty of. But why are gamers so sensitive to their media receiving the same level of critique?

5. I don't see why proof (to the degree that breitbart.com reporters and known moron Davis Aurini call police departments to verify that threats have been reported) is necessary. You can listen to someone who says they are threatened and empathize with them without putting the burden of proof on them. This isn't a court of law.


1. oh, sounds like something you'd need to prove or at least state some examples, or other reasoning (smiling)

3. some games already handle it fairly nicely, some don't. some gamers are sensitive, while some are not, some are obviously very passionate about this, but even so criticism is very much welcome, because good suggestions and ideas mean progress and those possibly lead to better things in the future. this is however a red herring, #gamergate and the outrage isn't about misogynism, sexism or whatever, it's about corruption and its systematic concealment by the gaming media.

I'm not sure what you mean about the trivialization part though: you don't provide any examples, so I'll provide my interpretation. let's say there's a game, in which violence - sexual or otherwise - is happening against a person, who is in some way related to the protagonist. we see a bad person doing harm to this person, and we feel bad. we want to stop the bad person. this provides an objective, which is to stop the bad person from doing harm to the other person. I fail to see the harm in this fictional situation, quite the contrary, as it "teaches" how to act when a person is in trouble. the person actually might as well be male, or female, or something entirely different. actually I think it's safe to say that in games, violence, torture and the like is usually directed against men, but that's beside the point

I don't agree that the criticism directed to games is at the same level than the criticism towards other media. there is a huge war being fought here, and people don't even know which side they are on, because they feel, instead of thinking or actually researching what this is about. can be said about both parties

my example sucks btw

5. I do. I care about facts. I can empathize, but I don't necessary believe people if what they're saying is furthering their own agenda, unless they provide proof! yes, this isn't a court of law, but some healthy skepticism and common sense would be welcome.

of course death threats are always a thing to be taken seriously, but from a juridical or rational or whichever viewpoint anyone has, it would make sense to think about these things critically, and not accept any claim as fact immediately. you can't presume that someone is a criminal unless you provide proof, that'd be against how the whole western world views justice, fairness and law

again you're saying someone is a moron, I don't want to take a stance on if the said person really is a moron, but how do you think attacking people makes you look?
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby goodintentions » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:16 pm

I think that the use of sexual violence as a tool to create an objective for a game is always gonna be iffy, and you need to handle it well if you are going to do it. Games rarely handle anything well, so it's why its such a big issue. One of the biggest problems with the sexualised violence you see in games is that even if its the bad guys committing the crime and you are told to kill those guys or whatever, the game is sort of having its cake and eating it too, in the sense that it still gets to show the violent sexual imagery whilst wagging its finger.

I didn't agree with you when you implied that the effects of art and media is minimal in terms of shaping social attitudes in your last post. I don't think it's ever cool to just let things slide and assume that it's not so harmful; there is vile sexism everywhere (if you aren't exposed to it, you're one of the lucky ones) and it's important to confront it in any way you can. Yes, the forming of views is a complex process, but I think this kind of stuff plays a more major role than you think. The problem isn't just with video games, since we live in a society which sexually objectifies women constantly, and although this is being pushed into the fringes slightly more and sometimes frowned upon in mainstream culture, video games are more popular than they ever have been and there is almost no real criticism of the content. If games ever want to stop being 99% shit, there needs to be a real movement within the developers to stop pandering to grubby, bitter misogynist nerds and force them to face up to the fact that the sexism they enjoy so much is a bad thing. No matter how emotional it makes them.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby prawnzee » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:53 pm

I agree with you on many accounts, but I don't think it's meaningful to continue this discussion when you classify gamers as a group of grubby, bitter misogynist nerds. it's of course reasonable to assume that some are, but the majority? no.

if you view this issue as "the group who loves women, equalism and human rights" vs "the angry nerds who hate women", it's easy to choose the "correct" side. but as most things, nothing is really black and white. from your writing I can see what you think of the gaming community as a whole, and honestly, you aren't providing any solutions on to how to make anything better. sounds pretty absurd if you claim that games are made for misogynists in mind
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby goodintentions » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:42 am

I'm not classifying everyone who plays games as misogynist nerds, but there is certainly a large portion of them who are obviously are. I mean, I play games myself, and it makes me angry that I game I could like in every other aspect contains completely sexist, offensive content. When I listen to my favourite albums, the music isn't interrupted with sexy sounds because boys like that. When I watch my favourite films, the women are portrayed as people and not as sex objects. Obviously there is sexism in both those fields, but you can avoid it.

Even the supposed 'good' games are needlessly misogynistic. Despite all the advances and ambitiousness of games these days, developers still seem to dislike and not care about women. You seem to feel a lot less strongly about this than me, or feel that the issue is less severe, but I think that there must be some layer of internal sexism in anyone who plays games and doesn't feel compelled to complain about the shit they are being fed. Not all people who play games are grubby nerds. Anyone willing to ignore misogyny because they can simultaneously defeat the final boss and get a hard dick (and love that combo enough to get upset over anyone criticising it) definitely is.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby odradek » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:42 am

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby alby » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:17 pm

quake live is available on stream now. game is so fast paced i can't even handle it i get so frustrated
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby oldtrailmix » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:52 pm

@goodintentions

can you list some examples? i'm curious to see what games you're referring to
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby Stingray Sam » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:33 pm

Re: the video, it seems like it's the video game world viewed through rose tinted glasses. Her arguments, as others have noted, revolve around the idea that boys will be boys. She also ignores the fact that there is a large portion of the video game community that is characterized by sexism, racism and other forms of bigotry and intolerance. There is an undeniable presence of these gamers in the industry that cannot be ignored. The real question is whether or not video games are simply a symptom of greater sexism and bigotry or if they actively contribute towards creating sexist and bigoted attitudes in gamers. In my opinion I think that the negative portrayal of women in video games can breed these attitudes, especially in younger consumers. However, this is not in a vacuum and i believe that these attitudes can come about even with the complete exclusion of video games from one's media consumption. These games are just yet another example of how media poorly portrays women. I think the portion of the community that is so often associated with sexism and death threats against women is the symptom of the community being highly exclusionary against outsiders. everyone in it has similar interests, video games, programming, putting in 40hr a week of gaming etc. They all seem to be primed with the ideas of sexism and bigotry being okay, and then it just becomes an echo chamber of these aspects of the culture being taken to their extremes. For me I've lost a few friends because they were using offensive slurs freshman year and while I've become less tolerant over the years of that sort of behavior they have gotten even worst. There is without a doubt this gamer identity that is based off of putting all these hours into video games and being so involved in the culture. I've definitely been on the periphery of this and i think to some extent some find it as a haven for outsiders. So when parts of that community and identity come under attack there is without a doubt going to be some pretty heavy push back.

I don't know much about Christina Hoff Summers except that MRAs tend to be fairly fond of her work, which I don't see as being a good sign. The video didn't particularly impress me, but i wrote off the ignorance of the uglier parts of the gaming community from simply being out of touch with the gaming generation. There are some things that right now can't really be quantified through studies or surveys, yet are still major factors within a community. It is no question that there is a climate of sexism and bigotry within a substantial subgroup of the gaming community. However, I think that you don't solve anything by attacking the community as it tends to lack self awareness and is fairly reactionary. Really this whole thing imo is just a symptom of larger problems within society and won't be solved until the whole issue of gender inequality is solved. Probably the best thing i see happening is people encouraging developers to integrate and push gender equality into their video games, as developers are usually well respected. And even with negative controversy over the games being more egalitarian, there are usually people deep within the gamer community willing to defend the developers and start pushing a more feminist opinion within the gamer echo chamber.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby kyung » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:30 am

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby BobbyZamora » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:35 am

i think sexism is prevalent in videogames as well as the videogames industry and culture but i also think anita sarkeesian does possibly the worst, most counter-productive job ever at combating said sexism, and generally her content only makes things worse as she is incredibly disingenuous and misleading to a lot of people, particularly those who don't actually play videogames.

this video does a decent job at giving an example of why this is (although the rest of this guy's videos are kinda silly):



i feel like ben is very much on the mark when he says she is more concerned with her own self righteousness/visibility than anything else, for example:



(mind the bizarre editing)
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby starfox64 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:23 am

seeing people with foxhound tattoos isn't unusual so i'm hoping to see a lot of people rocking this mgs collection in the near future
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby goodintentions » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:22 pm



Did anybody else ever play Eternal Ring for the PS2? It was like King's Field but easy and linear, but it was one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played. Total classic imo but I've never met anyone who's played it.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby oldtrailmix » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:41 pm

Sony playstatation is the cooler brand
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby Blastoise » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:23 pm

Alright so the SSB demo has been out everywhere for a few days (or weeks if you're in Japan). Thoughts? Played some on my own and with a friend. I think it's great. Controls on the 3DS fit the game perfectly, although there is a slight curve to it, getting used to it that is. 3D works quite well for it. Villager is a lot of fun but over-powered. Mega Man is kind of difficult to control.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby oldtrailmix » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:54 pm

nearly bankrupted my FUT club in FIFA 15 for Yohji kits and it was worth it

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby prawnzee » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:28 am

everyone who likes batman and(or) assassin's creed and(or) lord of the rings should play MIDDLE-EARTH: SHADOW OF MORDOR

it is a very good game
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby jrisk » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:50 am

can't be the only one playing

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby Blastoise » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:47 am

New characters are fun but Link is always my go-to. They packed way too much into a handheld game (in a good way). New story modes are interesting. Character and Mii customization is really cool/well done.

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby yubbermax » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:08 pm

@jrisk and @Blastoise I added you

1821-9857-5455
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby hmwut » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:29 am

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby rjbman » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:22 pm

Dragon Age: Origins (Standard Edition) is available free for Origin right now... it's a pretty fantastic rpg, and it's free. You can also grab some free DLC from Bioware's website.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby alby » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm

Anyone with Xbox Live (not xbox one sry im poor) and has Destiny want to play with me? I just started on Sunday but almost have a level 20 hunter and I hear that 20 is when the real fun starts or something like that. I just miss XBL friends :]

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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby starfox64 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:50 pm

my gamertag is spaying mantis but i don't have destiny sry
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby Yawn » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:23 pm

Aww ye , copped Dark Cloud 1 and Makai kingdom today. Spent the whole day alternating between Dark Cloud and San Andreas which was extremely comfy , but Makai Kingdom refuses to work on my TV due to the resolution or some shit.
Might just buy one of them old CRT tv's for a fiver tbh
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby prawnzee » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:36 pm


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ps. @Stingray Sam no apples unfortunatelyyyyy
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby yubbermax » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:08 pm

I've been playing GBA games on my phone again. Currently playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance then I'll play Dragon Warrior Monsters 1 or 2.
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby Muzzle » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:54 pm

I sold my ps3 a while ago and my "gaming computer" is running on a pentium so I don't play much now except super smash bros on my gamecube

I used to be a big steam-hoarder so this focus is a lot nicer
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Re: RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Postby bobo77 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:06 am

Anyone else play Europa Universalis 4?
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