News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bombs)

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bels » Fri May 08, 2015 2:19 am

Bricking it over the concept of an in out EU referendum x scotland seceding collab
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby areo » Fri May 08, 2015 4:43 am

What an awful day.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Bobbin.Threadbare » Fri May 08, 2015 6:10 am

I'm bummed because everyone at work is too caught up with the election to congratulate me on the bottle of Procecco I was gifted for presenting at our forum.

So selfish.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby chilljin » Fri May 08, 2015 10:51 am

the north remembers
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby chilljin » Fri May 08, 2015 10:51 am

also FUCK theresa may
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby maj » Sat May 09, 2015 1:18 pm

Trying not to engage with people on Facebook when they're posting some of the most fucking awful pandering right wing "journalism", while avoiding the UKIP 1 seat x million votes fallout and that shitty "that's how tax works" about beer is making me tear my hair out.i have no problem you sharing your views but 5 real your links suck and they're all so flawed a 20 year old guy ranting on a fashion forum can see through them.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby starfox64 » Mon May 11, 2015 4:13 pm

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby LelandJ » Thu May 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Probably new to most members here. Where we're at with climate and where we're headed:



Q&A afterwards:

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby mc-lunar » Fri May 15, 2015 4:54 pm

boston marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been sentenced to death

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/us/dz ... tence.html

i can't say im really ever in favor of the state having the ability to enforce death sentences but i can see why in this case
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby ramseames » Fri May 15, 2015 6:07 pm

Agreed about the death penalty in general but yeah no one is going to take his case up in 15 years and try to exonerate him

There are so many bad examples of the death penalty being used wrongly but this is like the one time I think it's justified

If I paid taxes in Massachusetts I would not want to spend a penny of my own money on the $3 mil it would cost to keep him in max security for the next 60+ years or whatever
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby sknss » Sat May 16, 2015 2:36 am

LelandJ wrote:Probably new to most members here. Where we're at with climate and where we're headed:

Spoiler:


Q&A afterwards:



Thank you for sharing. This is making me reconsider my life plans tbh
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby thephfactor » Sat May 16, 2015 2:05 pm

I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty in any case, including this one. And framing it as a financial question? In my opinion that's a bit gross, to be frank. It's all about outrage and revenge, neither of which have anything to do with justice or rationality.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Bobbin.Threadbare » Sat May 16, 2015 2:07 pm

I agree. It's gross.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby ramseames » Sat May 16, 2015 2:32 pm

It's not actually about the money ($3 million is nothing), it's about the principle of it.

This case doesn't have any of the normal issues that potentially come up with the death penalty. It was entirely ideological and he regrets nothing, there are essentially unlimited eyewitnesses, etc.

Saying its only about revenge and that theyre not doing the rational thing is pretty self righteous. If you read some of the news that's come out about it a lot of the people who were actually involved, who were victims/emts/family have used the word justice to describe the verdict.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby maj » Sat May 16, 2015 2:53 pm

While I can't imagine what it's like to have someone ripped from your family or friends in such a tragic incident, I think the idea that those involved are calling it justice is nothing unusual, many families or friends of those victims of "lesser" crimes resulting in death would call anything less than the death penalty injustice. The principle of "eye for an eye" is what fuels most death sentence debate, why should they get to live at all, incarcerated or not when they killed one or many people? That in itself is pretty vengeful thinking, although I can see the sense it makes to those affected. On the other hand If a person is being tried for taking the life of another, then why should the state have the authority to take a life and call it justice?

The job of the judiciary system isn't there to appease families of the victims in a direct sense, as harsh and saddening as that may be to them. It's to be a unbiased 3rd party to sentence crimes in a humane, rational and democratic way, even if the crime itself is far from that as hard as it may be.

I'm personally against the death penalty in any form, but I see why many call for it.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby LelandJ » Sat May 16, 2015 3:26 pm

sknss wrote:
LelandJ wrote:Probably new to most members here. Where we're at with climate and where we're headed:

Spoiler:


Q&A afterwards:



Thank you for sharing. This is making me reconsider my life plans tbh


I've been following climate science for almost two decades now and the warming/change increase in the past five years has pretty much stunned everyone including the most "pessimistic" scientists.

I've made the tortured decision not to have children, as depriving as that is for me I can't in good conscience do so knowing how limited our time is.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Bobbin.Threadbare » Sat May 16, 2015 4:36 pm

Killing someone who has killed doesn't make you the same as them, but I think we can be much better than they are.

Then again I don't advocate any kind of murder. At all. Of any animal.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby wiggly--woo » Sat May 16, 2015 5:03 pm

i think the death penalty is quite interesting as an exercise of power. at the end of the day, states create laws to discourage people from killing and they use prison (or indeed death) as a punishment for the people who break those laws. so they (the state) make themselves the exception to the very laws that they impose upon others, which emphasises/produces the power they have over their own citizens. in the case of the death penalty, the suspension of the law helps to maintain the state's power/control through fear/force (i.e. "you can't kill each other but we can kill you.")

regardless, it's state-led murder and for me there's no possible justification for that.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby ramseames » Sat May 16, 2015 5:33 pm

The government is the people's collective representation, not a separate entity that exists above them. governments do thousands of things every day that if citizens did would be illegal, that's not a legitimate argument against them doing it. We give the government the ability to do things we can't/won't trust individuals to do themselves because we are better off for it. The idea that a government should have no more rights/abilities than its people is really incredibly conservative.

The death penalty is not "you can't kill each other but we can kill you", its "you can't kill each other but if you do anyway and/or commit other atrocities we might be forced to kill you for it, as a consequence of your actions and not in any way because of an arbitrary usage of power"
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby wiggly--woo » Sat May 16, 2015 6:43 pm

ramseames wrote:The government is the people's collective representation, not a separate entity that exists above them. governments do thousands of things every day that if citizens did would be illegal, that's not a legitimate argument against them doing it. We give the government the ability to do things we can't/won't trust individuals to do themselves because we are better off for it. The idea that a government should have no more rights/abilities than its people is really incredibly conservative.

The death penalty is not "you can't kill each other but we can kill you", its "you can't kill each other but if you do anyway and/or commit other atrocities we might be forced to kill you for it, as a consequence of your actions and not in any way because of an arbitrary usage of power"


the government is the representative of the people but it's an imperfect one, if 'country x' enforces capital punishment it doesn't mean that each and every citizen of 'country x' actually supports it. i accept that that's a rather meaningless point though because no body of people will ever agree on everything. incidentally, i self-interpreted the 'government should have same rights as people' sentiment as being more anarchic than conservative but i see where you're coming from.

i also agree that the responsibility can be put upon the criminal for commiting an atrocious crime, but i maintain that the implementation of the death penalty can only come through the state suspending the law for their own benefit. but i don't mean to say that state power is an inherently bad thing. States 'exercise' their legislative, institutional and financial power to provide free education, affordable healthcare, welfare systems etc - all very favourable and benign uses of power.

The issue I have is that, for me, the death penalty is very much a malign use of power, where the state suspends to law to grant itself exception from the punishments given to those who kill, and for me there is no justificiation for that. It's not that I don't think states should have the power and autonomy to take decisive actions, it's more that, for me, in the case of death, the state shouldn't have such a totalising ability to decide when it is or isn't acceptable to take another person's life.

i guess i mentioned 'power' purely because i think it''s potentially a useful way of interpreting the death penalty, not because it's my reasoning against it. it all comes down to the principle that i don't think anyone has the right to decide if taking a life is/isn't okay.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby ramseames » Sat May 16, 2015 7:30 pm

wiggly--woo wrote:
the government is the representative of the people but it's an imperfect one, if 'country x' enforces capital punishment it doesn't mean that each and every citizen of 'country x' actually supports it. i accept that that's a rather meaningless point though because no body of people will ever agree on everything.


yeah, this is just the nature of representative government. consensus in groups larger than a few dozen is impossible, direct democracy as well.

i also agree that the responsibility can be put upon the criminal for commiting an atrocious crime, but i maintain that the implementation of the death penalty can only come through the state suspending the law for their own benefit.


but i don't mean to say that state power is an inherently bad thing. States 'exercise' their legislative, institutional and financial power to provide free education, affordable healthcare, welfare systems etc - all very favourable and benign uses of power.

The issue I have is that, for me, the death penalty is very much a malign use of power, where the state suspends to law to grant itself exception from the punishments given to those who kill, and for me there is no justificiation for that. It's not that I don't think states should have the power and autonomy to take decisive actions, it's more that, for me, in the case of death, the state shouldn't have such a totalising ability to decide when it is or isn't acceptable to take another person's life.


i don't think of it as a suspension of the law outside of any other behaviour the state engages in but prohibits citizens from. I think the majority of the people speaking out against the death penalty would be fine with those who would otherwise be put to death serving life sentences in maximum security prison. If someone were to imprison another person, even who has greatly and undeniably wronged them, for the rest of that person's life in their cellar that would be a heinous crime.

i guess i mentioned 'power' purely because i think it''s potentially a useful way of interpreting the death penalty, not because it's my reasoning against it. it all comes down to the principle that i don't think anyone has the right to decide if taking a life is/isn't okay.


I can understand where you're coming from, I'm not pro-death or killing in a general sense by any means but to me it exists as a reluctant necessity.

If a gunman is firing into a crowd of innocent people and a policeman shoots and kills him, would you argue that he as an agent of the government should not have been able to do so because no one should be permitted to kill? I imagine you wouldn't, and so the question then becomes not "should the government be allowed to kill at all" but instead "under what circumstances should the government kill someone"
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bobo77 » Sat May 30, 2015 8:13 pm

Who the hell is Martin O'Malley trying to appeal to? Who's annoyed enough with Clinton that they won't support her, but is also enough of a partisan Democrat (in the sense that they want a more "electable" candidate) that they won't support Sanders? Like who's his demographic? I have no clue why he's running. He's so boring. I'm so confused. Was he the DNC's choice of a "liberal alternative" to make it look like there was gonna be an actual primary before Sanders jumped in? Is he just being set up to be given a cabinet position if he drops out? Trying to build him a national brand if they wanna give him the VP candidacy?
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby frogosaurus » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:28 pm

My guess is middle-aged liberals who aren't ready to commit to Sanders' agenda because he's too openly aggressive towards business interests but are "disillusioned" with Hillary. A lot of middle class white folks who voted for Obama the past two times around. But yeah, he has very little to offer in terms of an alternative to the current options.

American leftists of c-t: how do you feel about Bernie? While I will in all likelihood support his campaign and vote for him, I can't help but feel he's the more cynical version of what Obama meant to progressives 8 years ago. My biggest issue with him is that he doesn't seem to offer any plan to meaningfully curb American imperialism, and his "middle class" vs "billionaire class" rhetoric seems very simplistic and it's shit we've all heard before. In any event he'll likely get walloped in the primary, and we can all watch the dynastic shitshow play out. But who knows, if McGovern could do it in '72 maybe Sanders can today.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Cowboy » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:18 am

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QkKjKxWm

Fucking hell. This is the manifesto for the Charleston shooter. Absolutely insane

It's just crazy. Can't pin it on mental illness either this is just delusion IMO. Haven't kept up but if they diagnose him with something I'll be very disappointed.

The gun was bought illegally, and the kid said something about almost not being able to do it because they were so nice to him at the bible study.

Edit: by saying pin it on MI I don't mean like "MI is an excuse". The manifesto just doesn't point to mental illness. It's like self induced brainwash. Lots of Internet influence for sure, so he just drowned himself in the content until it was true.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby ballast » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:30 pm

gay marriage is legal in all 50 states now. congrats!

relevant youtube video:

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby hooplah » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:02 pm

i feel simultaneously like i can't believe it has taken this long and i can't believe it happened this soon

yay
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News

Postby bobo77 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:56 pm

Did Cameron actually fuck a dead pig? Not familiar enough with British politics to know how legit this is.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Cowboy » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:32 am

Hey Europe

Can you all let me know about how the Paris events are being perceived and what's happening?

This is a very very bad incident, and it's not really hitting close to home for a lot of people around here that I've been conversing with.

This is crazy...
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Syeknom » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:08 am

It's really scary - I've spent a lot of time on the streets of the Bataclan (used to eat at a place a few buildings down from it) and Petit Cambodge and it's really horrific to picture this happening somewhere that you can see in your mind's eye.

A lot of young people in the attack too, the restaurants are in a hip area just off St Martin and Eagles Of Death Metal were playing at the theatre (they're ok from what I gather).

The slaughter of hostages is especially horrific - so calculated and inhumane.

Stayed up watching the updates last night. Extremely sad.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby evilfriends » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:40 am

Didn't get much sleep last night... I was so shocked when I heard that 17 people died and the number just kept rising and rising it was so insane and sad.

Really can't find the words to express my anger towards this senseless violence
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