News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bombs)

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby rublev » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:48 pm

stateofyou wrote:@rublev

while yeah that's probably the case for westminster the scottish labour party (where you definetily can have a more left stance and get elected) doesn't try to make any adjustments from party line at all

do agree re a new labour vibe from the SNP, ppl talk about sturgeon like she is the messiah it's very reminiscent of Blair in 1997

I probably wont vote for them in the holyrood elections, but they really are the best option a scottish voter has atm


it's difficult for the scottish labour party to divert from labour home policy. you can't have a uk general election with scottish labour promising one thing, and labour (UK) promising something different. the campaigns essentially have to be the same. we've already seen the press and other commentators pick apart policy areas where jim murphy has diverted from big ed. the problem murphy has is that he has the same policy framework but has to sell it in a different way. sturgo and swinney have said 'end austerity' till they're blue in the face which means murphy can no longer use the words 'spending' and 'cuts' without losing votes.

i do see some similarities between the snp and blair circa 97, but sturgeon comes across much more like an empty shop front to me.

it's win win for snp either way. labour minority government and they manoeuvre themselves into a position where unrealistic demands along with the general enmity in the house means another referendum won't be far away. conservative government in any form is probably a shortcut to part two of the labour scenario, ("scots vote overwhelmingly for snp / governed again by the tories" etc...) will be very interesting come holyrood elections.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby wiggly--woo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:21 am

nice article looking at the racial politics of the 2015 election

http://www.discoversociety.org/2015/04/ ... tion-2015/
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Iliam » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:31 am

Good article on the need for tactical voting in the first past the post system:

We are where we are – and that means we must use the puny tactical tools at our disposal. Many are repelled by tactical voting: it’s negative and it denies passionately held views. And yet that’s what our wicked system requires.

How best to stop a Cameron second term? Pause here to contemplate what a Tory win threatens – such as leaving the EU, a £12bn cut in benefits, climate denial, an end to social housing, and a 1930s-sized state.

Let’s consider Green voters’ dilemma – that’s 24% of Guardian readers who believe, with good reason, in pushing British politics leftwards. They want a Green surge to warn Labour to fear defection on the left as much as they fear the right. But here’s the Green danger: a Green vote damages Labour in every marginal seat, since they are largely drawn from otherwise Labour supporters. So in any marginal seat, a few Green voters may end up with their most feared result...

But why should they be deprived of a voice? Well, here’s the answer. A new vote-swap site is up and running where you can trade your vote with someone else to maximise its value and avoid gifting it by accident to the Tories. Organised by people associated with the pressure group Compass, it trades only between Labour and Green voters – though it’s a useful guide to other tactical voting...

Talking tactics brings politics into disrepute and disgusts young voters with its calculating cynicism. But that’s what our rotten system demands: head not heart.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby frogosaurus » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:54 pm

I thought watching yet another reddit orgy of white supremacism would be easier the eighth time around, but it's not.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bobo77 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:08 pm

And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non­-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view. I'm absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results. But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., March 14, 1968
http://www.gphistorical.org/mlk/mlkspeech/index.htm

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., April 16, 1963
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Ge ... ngham.html
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bird.in.flight » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:15 am

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby Yoder » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:37 am

What can a member of the white moderate do to help and make an impact?

reading about combat liberalism, the MLK quotes and other thought peaces has made me realize that i'm just as the problem. (Also, realizing that helps nothing!)

I am looking for serious advice/opinion, no internet sarcasm/jokes coming from me.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby stappard_ » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:04 am

I only just realised that Russell Brand's 'The Trews' is actually a combination of 'Truth' and 'News' and not about trousers at all
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby rublev » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:15 am

Image

death toll from the quake rising to over 4,000 and nepalese officials fear it could rise to 10,000 once more information is gathered about the destruction in remote areas

http://www.dec.org.uk/
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby stappard_ » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:14 am

I know its an awfully trite thing to say but I'm having an odd reaction to the news in Nepal; this is the first time I've ever witnessed something like this on the news where I've actually been to the exact places that are now destroyed. I have photos of me in Durbar Square, which is now all but gone. Weird. Reinforces the distancing effect of experiencing these tragedies through tv/internet media.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby rublev » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:18 am

on a lighter note, it's the anniversary of ed balls day

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the day 4 years ago ed balls tweeted his own name

how are you celebrating today?

Spoiler:
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and who could forget this classic from two years ago

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happy ed balls day everyone!
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby IsaiahSchafer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:21 am

Nepal is a really beautiful place and the scale of death that has happened and will happen if careful measures aren't taken is really really sad. Another shame is the negative impact this could have on tourism, which makes up about 50% of Nepal's GDP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nepal

http://www.redditblog.com/2015/04/calli ... al_28.html
Both charities make sure over 99% of donations go directly to actual relief.

Here's an article explaining why money to vetted charities is the best thing you can do for disaster relief:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/hait ... hquake-aid

Here's a subreddit that shows you the beautiful place you're potentially helping!
http://www.reddit.com/r/nepalpics

I haven't donated yet because there's AMA's on reddit this week with the heads of those aforementioned charities. Not that I am dubious about the use of the money, I just want to know more and maybe ask a couple questions. I'm not interested in climbing Everest or K2 or anything crazy, but it is a really beautiful country so if tourism in the next year or two could help, that may be a vacation worth considering.

I've watched pretty much every fictional movie, historical-fictional movie, and documentary about the mountains in the area and no video fails to mention that the Nepalese people are the backbone of basically every climb or venture that happens in that range. Biologically they're just perfect (after all these years of living and reproducing in the region) for being sherpas and if you haven't seen anything about how they set ropes, ladders, and oxygen tanks on Everest especially- do yourself a favor and search for some Everest movies on Netflix! (and some series). (keywords: Everest, Nepal, Himalayas, Sherpa, K-2).

Nepalese farmer and flintstone:
Image
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby germinal » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:07 am

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bels » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:21 am

It turns out there's literally a chance of cambridge falling from lib dem hands into labour and I genuinely don't know which one to vote for! So stressed! I can't cop out and vote green now.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby rublev » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:33 am

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lmao!
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bobo77 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:51 pm

While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime ... And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield, April 11, 2003

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 050097983/
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby IsaiahSchafer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm probably foolish for vocalizing opinions that historically most everyone disagrees with, but here's to another shot at discussion. This is my attempt at comparing and contrasting ideas in good faith.

RE: looting
Maybe in 2003 (i dunno I was 12) and talking about another country, that was a lot more relevant, but I'm assuming you're posting in reference to Baltimore and I feel it's pretty off-base. Looting a Walgreens for chips and beer (only video I've seen, I don't know what others there are) isn't taking feelings out on any regime. Nor is smashing windows on civilian cars, throwing trash cans at people, stealing personal belongings, etc.

I'd consider myself a very empathetic person. So yes, I can understand the emotions of frustration and repression and fear. Even if not on such a scale, I imagine most of us have been screwed over for something completely out of our control, whether it's in school or a job or whatever. So while I can understand why they did it, the conclusion that anyone who cares about freedom will accept it as a part of the price to freedom is completely unfair. I don't have to be okay with the violence and stealing that takes place and I don't have to accept it as a point on a path to something better. That doesn't mean I'm against things getting better.

Would I do the same thing in their shoes? Am I allowed to have an opinion? Does my opinion matter? Is my opinion correct? Is there a correct opinion to have on this topic? Do I have the answers for what they should do instead? If I'm saying what they did is wrong, should I have to provide an alternate solution? Is there a correct solution? Is there even any solution? idk!

What I do know is that I'm against unwarranted killing, racism, violence, and stealing. So going off that in a vacuum, I disapprove of the police and the rioters alike. I don't know how to extrapolate all of this in a perfect model and judge anyone else with 100% accuracy and come up with all the solutions. But I also know for certain that none of you (ie anyone reading this) know how to do that either! So, somewhat ironically I guess, I believe no issues are black and white. None. There's a million shades of gray in the middle. (I have to go, maybe to be continued..)(apologies if it's rambly, didn't get much of a chance to edit)
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby mofaux » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:15 pm

Malcolm X wrote:And when you see the Blacks react, since the people who do this aren’t there, they react against their property. The property is the only thing that’s there. And they destroy it. And you get the impression over here that because they are destroying the property where they live, that they are destroying their own property. No. They can’t get to the man, so they get at what he owns. [Laughter]

This doesn’t say it’s intelligent. But whoever heard of a sociological explosion that was done intelligently and politely? And this is what you’re trying to make the Black man do. You’re trying to drive him into a ghetto and make him the victim of every kind of unjust condition imaginable. Then when he explodes, you want him to explode politely! [Laughter]

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby vgtbls » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:43 pm

Smashing police cars is a legitimate survival strategy these days
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby odradek » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:00 pm

everyone should watch do the right thing
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby IsaiahSchafer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:07 pm

I don't really know how to respond to quotes without any commentary of your own, not even a "this is what I think as well". I don't mean that to be inflammatory, it just isn't really a discussion if you're not adding anything from you, which would be helpful to contextualize the quote and derive your intended meaning from it.

Beyond that, looking at the quote I feel like this one is off-base too. First, it feels like you're implying I want them to be civilized and nothing else, which isn't the case, necessarily. If the people acting with violence in baltimore wanted to reach 'the man' it's an hour's drive to D.C. or at least leave the snack aisle alone at walgreens and the windows on Suzy Whitebread's subaru intact. Go ahead and smash up some police cars if violence is the only way you think you can be heard. I'm still against the looting, the looters, and the baseless violence.

There's government property of all kinds you could act out towards- that's a message that speaks for itself. Throwing a trash can through a local bike shop's window is pretty unacceptable with no real justification imo. Unless that bike shop had an all italian-american wall of fame in it?

Also seems pretty off-base with the implication that anyone who isn't black is a "they" or "you". Phrases like "they put them in the ghetto... you want them to act civilly" makes it sound like it's 250 million Americans acting together against the black community which obviously isn't true. The racist people who want racial discrimination in the United States (in any form, speaking generally) aren't the same people who want the violence to stop.

Gotta run again, sorry again for lack of editing/cleaning up.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby thephfactor » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:13 pm

so, your position is the equivalent of #NotAllWhitePeople?
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby IsaiahSchafer » Fri May 01, 2015 12:11 am

I don't know wtf #notallwhitepeople is, a courtesy twitter search seems to be lots of.. I dunno, I really don't know what is going on there. Is it a bad thing to not be lumped together with a second thought? I don't do that to people and I'm asking for the same thing. to say otherwise would be ignoring the entire point I made about no issue being just black and white.

So no, I don't think my position is the equivalent of a pointless combative hashtag.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby thephfactor » Fri May 01, 2015 11:46 am

My point was: your position is the equivalent of "I'm not the problem, it's the other [insert group I'm a part of here]", a la the #NotAllMen hashtag I was referencing. I guess I was trying to take a rhetorical shortcut, as pretty much all the reasoning that went into refuting the hashtag could be redirected pretty easily onto your sense of white irresponsibility.
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby WussWayne » Sun May 03, 2015 11:11 am

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Nightclub on a Friday
Get my Gucci on
F-f-f-firestarter
Yes, I'm in the zone
You coming on me like a player (WOOF!)
But your game's all wrong
You get your words all twisted
It's the same old song
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby germinal » Thu May 07, 2015 6:03 am

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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby sbuers » Thu May 07, 2015 12:08 pm

So many people at college are going on about how everyone should vote for UKIP, I don't know whether to laugh or cry
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby bels » Thu May 07, 2015 6:14 pm

At acting class some people were talking really loudly in the room next door and totally ruined my (super nuanced) performance of Judge Brack.

The teacher went to ask them to keep it down. When he came back into the room he said:

"I should have known.... They're TORIES."

And they kept making noise!!!!! AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THE COUNTRY AGAIN?!?!?!?!
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby maj » Thu May 07, 2015 10:20 pm

Fucking Tories
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Re: News/Current Events, discussion (Bullets, Ballots & Bomb

Postby momjeans » Fri May 08, 2015 1:56 am

amikrumpingnow wrote:I'm probably foolish for vocalizing opinions that historically most everyone disagrees with, but here's to another shot at discussion. This is my attempt at comparing and contrasting ideas in good faith.

RE: looting
Maybe in 2003 (i dunno I was 12) and talking about another country, that was a lot more relevant, but I'm assuming you're posting in reference to Baltimore and I feel it's pretty off-base. Looting a Walgreens for chips and beer (only video I've seen, I don't know what others there are) isn't taking feelings out on any regime. Nor is smashing windows on civilian cars, throwing trash cans at people, stealing personal belongings, etc.


i would argue that this is in fact a legitimate way to take out feelings on a regime. america is an explicitly capitalist state, so the destruction of capital seems to have an inherent impact on the regime. not to mention the negative effects that capitalism has had and continue to has on impoverished and poc. i also am not a huge fan of stealing/smashing personal (as opposed to private) property of the average civilian, but i think that it is important to remember that this is in direct response to deaths of human beings due to systematic oppression, and car windows, etc. (at least to me) seem inconsequential in relation to this.

I'd consider myself a very empathetic person. So yes, I can understand the emotions of frustration and repression and fear. Even if not on such a scale, I imagine most of us have been screwed over for something completely out of our control, whether it's in school or a job or whatever. So while I can understand why they did it, the conclusion that anyone who cares about freedom will accept it as a part of the price to freedom is completely unfair. I don't have to be okay with the violence and stealing that takes place and I don't have to accept it as a point on a path to something better. That doesn't mean I'm against things getting better.


again, i think that remembering that people are BEING MURDERED based on the color of their skin is an important thing to do before condemning a riot.

Would I do the same thing in their shoes? Am I allowed to have an opinion? Does my opinion matter? Is my opinion correct? Is there a correct opinion to have on this topic? Do I have the answers for what they should do instead? If I'm saying what they did is wrong, should I have to provide an alternate solution? Is there a correct solution? Is there even any solution? idk!


i personally dont think that there is a 'correct' solution, but i do find it problematic to condemn people's reaction to a situation/experience that i have never had (or ever will have). as far as im concerned, murder/racism/oppression is a much bigger and more pressing issue than rioting (think of how many happen after sports games that barely receive a comment because the impact is so small), so the disapproval of rioting is ultimately regressive.

What I do know is that I'm against unwarranted killing, racism, violence, and stealing. So going off that in a vacuum, I disapprove of the police and the rioters alike. I don't know how to extrapolate all of this in a perfect model and judge anyone else with 100% accuracy and come up with all the solutions. But I also know for certain that none of you (ie anyone reading this) know how to do that either! So, somewhat ironically I guess, I believe no issues are black and white. None. There's a million shades of gray in the middle. (I have to go, maybe to be continued..)(apologies if it's rambly, didn't get much of a chance to edit)


i hope this doesn't seem to oppositional. i agree with a lot of what you're saying, and i think you're coming from a good place! hopefully this information is helpful and new!
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