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Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:43 am
by sknss
If consumers knew how farmed chickens were raised, they might never eat their meat again

Because broilers grow unnaturally fast, those which are kept for breeding – and are therefore not slaughtered at six weeks but allowed to reach sexual maturity at about 15-18 weeks – have to be starved, otherwise they would become too big to mate.


In the UK, the stocking density is typically 38kg of bird per square metre – an area less than an A4 sheet of paper for each mature chicken. Free-range and organic production insist on more space, but our typical Sunday roast chicken will have more room in the oven when dead than it had to live in on the farm.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:10 pm
by sknss

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:36 am
by longjumps

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:31 pm
by Northwest
I know there are many alternatives to nuts, but if I am starting the process of going vegan and I have a peanut allergy does anyone have suggestions about food that packs well? I often pack myself lunches if I will be in the city anyway because finding safe, tasty, and affordable places to eat doesn't often work out.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:08 pm
by ramseames
http://qz.com/749443/being-vegan-isnt-a ... you-think/

This is a click bait title but the body of the article is interesting

The key point:

So why not go whole-hog vegan?
When applied to an entire global population, the vegan diet wastes available land that could otherwise feed more people. That’s because we use different kinds of land to produce different types of food, and not all diets exploit these land types equally.
Grazing land is often unsuitable for growing crops, but great for feeding food animals such as cattle.
Perennial cropland supports crops that are alive year-round and are harvested multiple times before dying, including a lot of the grain and hay used to feed livestock.
Cultivated cropland is where you typically find vegetables, fruits and nuts.
The five diets that contained the most meat used all available crop and animal grazing land. The five diets using the least amount of meat—or none at all—varied in land use. But the vegan diet stood out because it was the only diet that used no perennial cropland at all, and, as a result, would waste the chance to produce a lot of food.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:50 pm
by thephfactor
bc "what's good for humanity" is nothing but the gross amount of food we produce and sheer acreage of farmland we use, land that is not producing food for humans is wasted, there is a problem of food supply and not food distribution in the world, and "what's good for humanity" should dictate our treatment of other beings on earth and the land itself ... [thinking emoji][thinking emoji][thinking emoji]

luv the editors note on this piece: "An earlier version of this story was published with the headline, “Being vegan isn’t as environmentally friendly as you think.” The headline and descriptions of sustainability were changed to more accurately reflect the research described in the story, which focuses on using land efficiently to feed more people, not protecting the environment." Ha ha.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:20 pm
by thephfactor
You're treating your morals/worldview like forgone conclusions when you respond like this

@ramseames honestly, what morals/worldview do you expect to encounter in a thread dedicated to veganism and vegetarianism? My comments were meant to show how someone who's made the decision to adhere to a plant-based diet would find the kind of reasoning in the article to be unconvincing, if not irrelevant. I think the things I mentioned are pretty much "foregone conclusions" for veganarchists, so I don't really understand the need to neg.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:32 pm
by ramseames
People have different reasons for wanting to eat no/limited meat and animal products, many of which are unrelated to their personal ethical beliefs

"eating purely vegan is a less effective use of available farmland than some omnivorous diets" would probably be of interest to anyone choosing their diet for reasons related to conservationism/environmental impacts

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:39 pm
by thephfactor
ramseames wrote:"eating purely vegan is a less effective use of available farmland than some omnivorous diets" would probably be of interest to anyone choosing their diet for reasons related to conservationism/environmental impacts

But as I implied in my post, and as the article itself admits in a correction, the study has nothing to do with conservationism or environmentalism. By "less effective use of available farmland," they simply mean that the gross amount of land is not being used to make the highest amount of food. The article literally uses the word "exploit" in reference to land use, for god's sake. It's all predicated on the idea that land not being used for human consumption is land wasted, which is about as anti-environmentalist as you can get.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:53 pm
by ramseames
It's all predicated on the idea that land not being used for human consumption is land wasted, which is about as anti-environmentalist as you can get.


I think you're reading too much into their conclusion, which is basically just "if we have x amount of land, distributed among different types as is found naturally, we can feed y amount of people depending on what we use it for"

The article is editorialized but the study itself isn't.

My point was that people who are making choices for reasons other than your own might find it interesting, but you responded as though everyone who might be reading is of your own perspective.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:06 pm
by thephfactor
ramseames wrote:My point was that people who are making choices for reasons other than your own might find it interesting, but you responded as though everyone who might be reading is of your own perspective.

I think this thread has a narrow enough scope: it is called "Veganarchism", not "Meatcapitalism," after all. I don't think it was ever really for everyone on the website, as not everyone on here abstains from eating meat. Which is fine, and meat-eaters have made great contributions to the thread anyway. But I don't think it was ever conceived a place to convince people of the benefits of eating meat. So again, I'm just not sure what you expected, lol.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:50 pm
by ramseames
I'm not coming into the thread "to convince people of the benefits of eating meat". I posted an article that relates to the subject of the thread and you dismissed it with what is essentially a no true Scotsman fallacy about how all vegetarians and vegans think meat is murder.

Petending that there aren't environmentally focused vegans/vegetarians that don't have ethical qualms with meat itself but thinks that its production is generally worse for the planet than plant based food, doesn't cause those people not to exist.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:22 am
by parastexis
ramseames wrote:I'm not coming into the thread "to convince people of the benefits of eating meat". I posted an article that relates to the subject of the thread and you dismissed it with what is essentially a no true Scotsman fallacy about how all vegetarians and vegans think meat is murder.

Petending that there aren't environmentally focused vegans/vegetarians that don't have ethical qualms with meat itself but thinks that its production is generally worse for the planet than plant based food, doesn't cause those people not to exist.


The paper concluded that ovolacto and lacto vegetarian diets are the optimal uses of land (graph for reference) so if you are being earnest and this issue is genuinely important to you, perhaps consider going vegetarian.

And to be clear, veganism is the view that animals are not commodities, so animal rights can not be separate from discussions of veganism. Sustainable diets are a different issue.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:13 am
by ramseames
I never stated an opinion on anything.

I feel like I'm going insane saying "some people might have different reasons for why they do things" and then having people act like that's an absurd statement.

Dietary veganism isn't a thing, apparently.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:13 pm
by vgtbls
It's an interesting study, and I think it's well reasoned for what it assumes. Anyone interested in actually feeding more people would do better studying food waste.

I hate that the articles about the study equate land utility with calorie production. Unused land filters our water, protects our homes, filters the air, and protects biodiversity.

Also the article made zero mention of animal waste products. Manure, methane, antibiotic-resistant pathogens, agricultural runoff, the list goes on.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:25 am
by sknss
so vegan i've got a tofu shelf
Image

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:07 pm
by jujumaster
Why dont we build gardens upwards?

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:26 pm
by sagc

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 am
by sknss

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:07 am
by plaidappendix
Hello

Currently in the process of becoming a vegetarian, with the end goal of becoming vegan.

Right now the plan is to just cut out meat, and get used to that, and probably be done with animal products by the summer/beginning of college.

Any tips from experienced users?

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:27 pm
by sknss
Awesome! Right now you're probably thinking "what am i going to eat?". Just to give you an idea, my meals usually revolve around grains (rice, pasta, couscous etc) or potatoes, then legumes (beans, lentils, tofu etc), and vegetables. Breakfast is easily sorted. Personally I have porridge with some kind of nut butter, flax seeds and a piece of fruit. You could also do cereal with a plant milk - on this topic, I recommend trying all plant milks, and then trying them again later if you don't like one of them. Your palate will adjust during this transition period. You can also do avocado toast, smoothies, tofu scrambles...

I flood the food thread with my pictures so that could give you some flintstone. When eating out, you'll almost always find something to eat at lebanese restaurants( falafel and houmous), indian restaurants, chinese restaurants, and italian restaurants.

If I had only one piece of advice to give, I'd say have fun and don't be afraid to try new things. And if you slip up, don't beat yourself up. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions!

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:44 pm
by maj
I recommend always keeping snacks on you when you're starting out, if you get hungry you're more thank likely to reach for meat based snacks intentionally/ unintentionally and it helps alleviate that. Even now when I'm at work and not hada break in a while I feel like I could smash some pork crackling, but when I eat it all goes away.

I'd also stay away from cooking shows as they're rather seducing in the way they present meat, even now it gets me hot under the collar.

Interact with all the animals you see either physically or mentally no matter the size, I find it really helps me remember the main reason I don't eat animal stuff.

Watch documentaries which focus not just on animal welfare issues but generally the meat industry and such as it can give you more motivation

And as Lou said don't beat yourself up if you slip up, it's not about being perfect it's about being conscious.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:06 am
by surfdude69
i've been vegan for around 6 months now. constantly struggled with my weight for the bulk of my life, but the weight has been dropping off me even though i'm eating a lot more than when i consumed dairy & meat. my mum has also made the change, her boyfriend has gone veggie, my sister is starting to phase meat out. i went vegan because i started to see how my beloved dog isn't any different to a cow or a pig, and neither is a human. it really annoys me how someone can say they love animals and still support such a horrible industry, or how anyone can call themselves a feminist and still drink cows milk.
my girlfriend and i cook up all sorts of delicious meals, moreso than when i ate meat. i'll post some recipes we make if anyone's interested. here's a lil recipe for a roasted potato kind of thing i eat with rice and chilli;

- dice however many potatoes you want and a red onion
-put in something like a measuring jug
-pour quite a lot of vegetable oil in
-add shit load of paprika, cayenne pepper, touch of chilli powder and sriracha and of course s&p. you basically want the potatoes to be coated in spices, so just add as much as you think but don't hold back
-OPTIONAL: add chopped rosemary. i really like the taste of rosemary but am not keen of getting it caught in my teeth, sometimes i don't bother
-pour it onto tin foil and wrap it up like a present
-bake in the oven on medium high for around 45 mins/1 hr, you just want them to be soft throughout
-unwrap the tinfoil so it's open, bake for further 20 mins until they've gone a bit crispy

it's a really easy thing to make whilst you're doing stuff. sometimes i put it in the oven then go shopping lol, but you can watch an episode of Dexter or something instead

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:38 am
by sknss
Welcome to Veganuary! Grab a pumpkin slice
Image

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:54 pm
by mildude
It's been a while since I've posted, ct! How are you all?

On January first I quit meat cold turkey. It's been about three years since I was a vegetarian last, and I can tell you I really, really did not eat nutritiously back then. So far It's been easier than I've thought to eat cheaply and nutritiously and veganly. Nowadays I'm reasonably into eating healthily, but I'm not great at cooking and probably have a weird palate.

Can anyone recommend me some basic vegetarian or vegan recipes that are high in protein and good for a young person who's new to cooking? I'm trying to hit about 140-160g/day.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:17 pm
by costanza
mildude wrote:It's been a while since I've posted, ct! How are you all?

On January first I quit meat cold turkey. It's been about three years since I was a vegetarian last, and I can tell you I really, really did not eat nutritiously back then. So far It's been easier than I've thought to eat cheaply and nutritiously and veganly. Nowadays I'm reasonably into eating healthily, but I'm not great at cooking and probably have a weird palate.

Can anyone recommend me some basic vegetarian or vegan recipes that are high in protein and good for a young person who's new to cooking? I'm trying to hit about 140-160g/day.



https://translate.google.se/translate?s ... edit-text=

Red lentil stew is high in protein. I made this recipe without the carrots and coriander a few days ago. And I changed the vegetable stock to mushroom stock and had around 2-5x as much ground cumin, stock and ginger in it. It's one of the best red lentil meals I've eaten.

EDIT: https://translate.google.se/translate?s ... edit-text=

Black beans are also rich with protein. I made this yesterday and my only regret is that I didn't make more. Had lime instead of red wine vinegar and mushroom stock here again, also some smoked paprika, and some mushroom soy. Swedish recipes are usually under spiced in my opinion so feel free to freestyle with the amounts. I also stomped it to get a more chunky texture too it, even after the long cooking time the beans were still intact.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:01 pm
by parastexis
mildude wrote:It's been a while since I've posted, ct! How are you all?

On January first I quit meat cold turkey. It's been about three years since I was a vegetarian last, and I can tell you I really, really did not eat nutritiously back then. So far It's been easier than I've thought to eat cheaply and nutritiously and veganly. Nowadays I'm reasonably into eating healthily, but I'm not great at cooking and probably have a weird palate.

Can anyone recommend me some basic vegetarian or vegan recipes that are high in protein and good for a young person who's new to cooking? I'm trying to hit about 140-160g/day.


140 to 160 g of protein? the body can only use .8 g per pound of lean body mass, even for body building, so I think that's way too much for you.

I keep it pretty straightforward since I don't have a ton of time to cook on weekdays. A lot of spaghetti + sauce + sauteed veg + fake meatballs, roasted veg which can go in a burrito with rice + beans + guac or in a sandwich with avocado or hummus, chickpea curry (chickpeas, coconut milk, onion, garlic, curry powder, tomato, cauliflower) over rice, ramen + tofu + veg + broth, sweet potatoes + hummus. all else fails, pb&j. vegans love almond milk but soy milk has 6g of protein per serving while almond has none. Meals are easy but I still find snacking hard.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:29 pm
by Ques

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:51 pm
by Bobbin.Threadbare
That article made me feel very angry - 'white veganism' sounds racist and I don't believe that the norm is to 'guilt' people of colour into veganism through citing slavery. I do think some vegans feel animal rights is equitable to human rights but I think the sentiment of the piece is to create racial element where there is not one. If you believe that animal slavery is the same as human slavery and are trying to make people understand the point of difference I do not believe you are guilting people of colour into action - you are making a point of ethics that people of all colours can understand. If ANYONE is being 'guilted' it is socially liberal people who believe they do not support slavery.

Veganism, from my own experience as well as many others, is often a cultural journey that explores the benefits of a plant based diet taken from the world's larder. Veganism is a diet (and a dictate of things you buy and wear) - if it 'ignores' racial and gender issues it is because they are not part of its remit. Vegans, however, tend to be (in my experience) some of the most socially progressive and open people in society.

I have so much more to say but I just can't.

Re: Veganarchism

PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:35 am
by sknss
Carnage is up on BBC iplayer, and it's pretty good!